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Thread: I think I am going to resume UOCing.

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    I know, I always advise newcomers not to solo UOC. I think I'm going to have to stop echoing that thought because I am feeling that solo UOC for myself is a good idea (again).

    My ride in to work has become more and more hazardous. I enjoyed the days before where I could make a 5-10-15-100-mile ride without anyone so much as tailgating me. People would not cut me off on the freeway, people would not try to "share lanes" with me, while I was already splitting them. CHPs would give a nod or a wave instead of just flying by at 95mph.

    I'm not sure what it is, but while riding/driving people seem to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want and the rules of the road don't apply to them because "what are you gonna do about it?". This results in disastrous consequences for others on the road (like myself). Luckily nothing bad has happened yet.

    So, I'm dusting off my drop-leg holster, putting new batteries in my voice recorder, stocking the storage compartment on my bike with OC pamphlets and loading 2 mags. I'll UOC while riding, and LUCC while driving. Also, my job is as a driver now. It will be nice to know for those times when I have to drive through the slummiest of slums to pick up clients that I'm not entirely useless.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Carry on!
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member Legend_AB's Avatar
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    Welcome back!

    I always at least carry LUCC. I still haven't UOC'd completely on my own, I usually have at least one friendly witness around.

    I bet the number of people road raging on you will go way down!

    "An armed society is a polite society"

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    demnogis wrote:
    I know, I always advise newcomers not to solo UOC. I think I'm going to have to stop echoing that thought because I am feeling that solo UOC for myself is a good idea (again).

    My ride in to work has become more and more hazardous. I enjoyed the days before where I could make a 5-10-15-100-mile ride without anyone so much as tailgating me. People would not cut me off on the freeway, people would not try to "share lanes" with me, while I was already splitting them. CHPs would give a nod or a wave instead of just flying by at 95mph.

    I'm not sure what it is, but while riding/driving people seem to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want and the rules of the road don't apply to them because "what are you gonna do about it?". This results in disastrous consequences for others on the road (like myself). Luckily nothing bad has happened yet.

    So, I'm dusting off my drop-leg holster, putting new batteries in my voice recorder, stocking the storage compartment on my bike with OC pamphlets and loading 2 mags. I'll UOC while riding, and LUCC while driving. Also, my job is as a driver now. It will be nice to know for those times when I have to drive through the slummiest of slums to pick up clients that I'm not entirely useless.
    Well as long as your not one of the people driving 65 in the passing lane you should be fine lol. I don't know about everybody else, but when I see people in the passing lane holding up traffic, its like an open invitation to cut them off and slam on your brakes to get them out of that lane.

    It's been proven that jerk drivers reduce traffic...

    http://physicscentral.com/buzz/blog/...95237807494042

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    demnogis wrote:
    I know, I always advise newcomers not to solo UOC. I think I'm going to have to stop echoing that thought because I am feeling that solo UOC for myself is a good idea (again).

    My ride in to work has become more and more hazardous. I enjoyed the days before where I could make a 5-10-15-100-mile ride without anyone so much as tailgating me. People would not cut me off on the freeway, people would not try to "share lanes" with me, while I was already splitting them. CHPs would give a nod or a wave instead of just flying by at 95mph.

    I'm not sure what it is, but while riding/driving people seem to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want and the rules of the road don't apply to them because "what are you gonna do about it?". This results in disastrous consequences for others on the road (like myself). Luckily nothing bad has happened yet.

    So, I'm dusting off my drop-leg holster, putting new batteries in my voice recorder, stocking the storage compartment on my bike with OC pamphlets and loading 2 mags. I'll UOC while riding, and LUCC while driving. Also, my job is as a driver now. It will be nice to know for those times when I have to drive through the slummiest of slums to pick up clients that I'm not entirely useless.
    You're a driver now? Kewl, I am too

    Give me a month or two and some more versatile gun carry options will be out there for you guys.

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    just my 2 cent opinon, but I would not make driver infractions an issue relating to OC.

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Well, my vehicle is considered my "place of business". What kind of doorways does that open up for me?
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Making your place of business an issue is less likely to draw scrutiny. Unless you made references to rude people bumping you, standing too close to you, etc. if you get my drift there. The point I was trying to convey is that your gun shouldn't be associated with minor infractions or violations of personal space. I mean, if someone's trying to run you over on purpose that's a different story. But traffic related incidents are pretty common

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    On a motorcycle just "bumping you" or "coming into your space" can be fatal. I have 1 friend who is still recovering and scheduled to have reconstructive shoulder surgery because someone "came into his space" at 40mph.

    My carrying while riding is not to be an aggressor, it is so people will leave me alone. I ride into work at varying hours of the day, normally in the 3am-5am timeslot. Over the past few weeks I have noticed people intentionally cutting it close or trying to "move" me out of the way because their vehicle is bigger.

    SoCal drivers ftw, right?

    On a side note... Today's ride into work during commuter traffic was uneventful. Many glances and stares, but nobody cut me off or "paced" my blind spots. It was nice and relaxing... the way driving/riding should be every day!
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Well, you have my opinion on that. Good luck, andI hope your ride is a safe one

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    AyatollahGondola wrote:
    just my 2 cent opinon, but I would not make driver infractions an issue relating to OC.
    I believe he was making a point that other drivers are much more aware of a motorcycle rider if they have a gun on thier hip (thigh). He noticed an increase in people behaving like morons after he stopped UOC while riding. And since people not respecting the safety zone of a motorcycle will usually respect the safety zone around a man with a gun, I agree with him starting to UOC again. It is a means of self-defense that doesn't involve using the gun against a criminal.

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    demnogis wrote:
    On a motorcycle just "bumping you" or "coming into your space" can be fatal. I have 1 friend who is still recovering and scheduled to have reconstructive shoulder surgery because someone "came into his space" at 40mph.

    My carrying while riding is not to be an aggressor, it is so people will leave me alone. I ride into work at varying hours of the day, normally in the 3am-5am timeslot. Over the past few weeks I have noticed people intentionally cutting it close or trying to "move" me out of the way because their vehicle is bigger.

    SoCal drivers ftw, right?

    On a side note... Today's ride into work during commuter traffic was uneventful. Many glances and stares, but nobody cut me off or "paced" my blind spots. It was nice and relaxing... the way driving/riding should be every day!
    Yes, to many riders like myself, someone moving into your lane can easilly kill you. The gun is merely something to make you stand out, JUST like it is out in public. If a guy with a gun was thinking about robbing a place.. he would see your gun and go the other direction. If a person was thinking of moving into your lane and then sees your gun, he would go the other direction.

    AND TRUST ME- it has happened where people see me and STILL MOVE INTO MY LANE. Obviously I move out of the way because I would die if I didn't. But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.

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    I think some of us mistook Demnigos as saying he was carrying his firearm in order to defend himself in case someone decided to violate his safety zone (as in, use the firearm to eliminate the threat).

    It's more clear to me now that he intended this to be nothing more than a visual deterrent.

    (Which I now realize should have been obvious... not being a motorcycle rider myself, I just realized how hard it would be to load a handgun while riding a motorcycle.)

    Sounds like this is a good deterrent.

    Ride safe and carry on.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    Don't Tread On Me.

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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    (Which I now realize should have been obvious... not being a motorcycle rider myself, I just realized how hard it would be to load a handgun while riding a motorcycle.)
    LOL, I was imagining this... you'd need a self-balancing unit to go hands-free and load.

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    AND TRUST ME- it has happened where people see me and STILL MOVE INTO MY LANE. Obviously I move out of the way because I would die if I didn't. But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
    Ok I have read this entire post and am abot to explode. If your going to UOC because you do... then do it. Everything I read here is about pure paranoia. Motorcyclists consistantly have to fight off the bad reputation that a few idiots give us.

    Lane splitting is legal.... but not ness. or safe when traffic is flowing at 25 mph or greater. Then there are the stunt riders, Lets not even go there. Harley riders, like myself just look scary to some...but we are just like them. We are constantly fighting off a bad rep. A lot of motorcycle accidents are our own fault. I have been riding bikes for over 20 years now. I have taken many a rider improvement course. I ride defensively. Set my pace and space on whats around me.Riding a bike is a constant mental workout.DONT drive offensively.

    The gun thing just adds to that bad rap...if that is why you are carrying it. To intimidate!

    And NO what you describe is not attemted murder. Its bad driving and road rage. If you can't deal with an occasional bad driver or sticky butt puckering incident.... Then get off the bike and buy a Hummer.



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    ConsideringOC wrote:
    AND TRUST ME- it has happened where people see me and STILL MOVE INTO MY LANE. Obviously I move out of the way because I would die if I didn't. But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
    Ok I have read this entire post and am abot to explode. If your going to UOC because you do... then do it. Everything I read here is about pure paranoia. Motorcyclists consistantly have to fight off the bad reputation that a few idiots give us.

    Lane splitting is legal.... but not ness. or safe when traffic is flowing at 25 mph or greater. Then there are the stunt riders, Lets not even go there. Harley riders, like myself just look scary to some...but we are just like them. We are constantly fighting off a bad rep. A lot of motorcycle accidents are our own fault. I have been riding bikes for over 20 years now. I have taken many a rider improvement course. I ride defensively. Set my pace and space on whats around me.Riding a bike is a constant mental workout.DONT drive offensively.

    The gun thing just adds to that bad rap...if that is why you are carrying it. To intimidate!

    And NO what you describe is not attemted murder. Its bad driving and road rage. If you can't deal with an occasional bad driver or sticky butt puckering incident.... Then get off the bike and buy a Hummer.

    Hmmph...

    INTIMIDATE

    1. to make timid; fill with fear. 2. to overawe or cow, as through the force of personality or by superior display of wealth, talent, etc. 3. to force into or deter from some action by inducing fear: to intimidate a voter into staying away from the polls.
    DETER

    v. tr.
    To prevent or discourage from acting, as by means of fear or doubt: "Does negotiated disarmament deter war?" (Edward Teller). See Synonyms at dissuade.
    v. intr.
    To prevent or discourage the occurrence of an action, as by means of fear or doubt: "It's this edge that gives nuclear weapons their power to deter" (Thomas Powers).

    Intimidation is brought about by an active component, e.g. seeking out someone and intimidating them.

    A deterrent, on the other hand, is a passive force, e.g. seeing a guy with a gun means you should probably just leave him alone.

    People willfully violate the space of others just because they can. Having a deterrent usually evens up the odds a bit. That cannot be argued.



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    ConsideringOC wrote:
    AND TRUST ME- it has happened where people see me and STILL MOVE INTO MY LANE. Obviously I move out of the way because I would die if I didn't. But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
    Ok I have read this entire post and am abot to explode. If your going to UOC because you do... then do it. Everything I read here is about pure paranoia. Motorcyclists consistantly have to fight off the bad reputation that a few idiots give us.

    Lane splitting is legal.... but not ness. or safe when traffic is flowing at 25 mph or greater. Then there are the stunt riders, Lets not even go there. Harley riders, like myself just look scary to some...but we are just like them. We are constantly fighting off a bad rep. A lot of motorcycle accidents are our own fault. I have been riding bikes for over 20 years now. I have taken many a rider improvement course. I ride defensively. Set my pace and space on whats around me.Riding a bike is a constant mental workout.DONT drive offensively.

    The gun thing just adds to that bad rap...if that is why you are carrying it. To intimidate!

    And NO what you describe is not attemted murder. Its bad driving and road rage. If you can't deal with an occasional bad driver or sticky butt puckering incident.... Then get off the bike and buy a Hummer.

    Your the paranoid one. And last time I checked I don't sugar coat someone trying to kill me with their 2 ton vehicle with "road rage". Would you sugar coat someone raping your daughter as "oh hes just letting off some steam"... Yah I doubt it buddy. So if I can't handle trying to get slammed by a 2 ton vehicle into the median or off a 200 foot cliff going 70 mph, I should by a $35,000 vehicle? Im rich but I'm not a moron. That's like saying if your daughter can't handle getting raped, she should wear a bag over her head and baggy jackets that make her look like a man everytime she goes out in public.

    The 2nd amendment is there for a reason. Our protection. Whatever irrational fear you have about firearms is your problem, not mine. The law is on my side.

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    People willfully violate the space of others just because they can. Having a deterrent usually evens up the odds a bit. That cannot be argued.

    Sometimes though, the deterrent can be a vulgar display of power or force, and an overreaction to a percieved offense. Just my opinion again, but firearms should be used in cases of defense where a purposeful act of assault is perpetrated. I think that anything outside of that arena is going to earn some scorn, or in the very least skepticism as to motive or intent. Either of those is unlikely to propel the open carry cause forward. People running over each other out on the roadway is seldom viewed as anything but an accident, absent compelling evidence of a pointed attack. Along with that goes the general feeling that people in this state do not want to revisit the highway shootings between motorists that occurred back in the early 80's I believe. If anyone remembers the bumper sticker from that era..

    "Dont Shoot!"

    "I'll Move Over"

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    A gross display of power would be pulling a gun for a non-threatening situation or threatening to induce cooperation, not unlike what most cops like to do normally in the name of the State.

    A gun sitting there in a holster of a biker is not a gross display of power, not anymore than it would be if the holstered gun were on a horseman, a pedestrian or a cyclist.

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    AyatollahGondola wrote:
    People willfully violate the space of others just because they can. Having a deterrent usually evens up the odds a bit. That cannot be argued.

    Sometimes though, the deterrent can be a vulgar display of power or force, and an overreaction to a percieved offense. Just my opinion again, but firearms should be used in cases of defense where a purposeful act of assault is perpetrated. I think that anything outside of that arena is going to earn some scorn, or in the very least skepticism as to motive or intent. Either of those is unlikely to propel the open carry cause forward. People running over each other out on the roadway is seldom viewed as anything but an accident, absent compelling evidence of a pointed attack. Along with that goes the general feeling that people in this state do not want to revisit the highway shootings between motorists that occurred back in the early 80's I believe. If anyone remembers the bumper sticker from that era..

    "Dont Shoot!"

    "I'll Move Over"
    OK the most beneficial part of OC'ing and not concealed carrying is that your gun acts as a deterrent. Ok? if you have been here on the OC board for however long and have not come to that conclusion then I don't know what to tell you. You seem to have some fear that if someone cuts us off we are going to use our weapons, that is irrational. You can NOT sit here and tell me the woman that ripped into my lane almost forcing me into a 10 foot ditch would have still done it seeing either 1. a cop behind her or 2. a gun holstered on my hip. Seeing as how cops are as unlikely to be at a mall or school shooting as they are to be behind this woman at the time, that only leaves the OC movement with option 2. By the way, I managed to get out of the way in time, I pulled around her and she looked at me and laughed. There are some crazy people out there that want to cause that pain or death on someone, if there are no cops around then they figure "why not?".

    So please, stop comparing the OC movement to those morons that shot people over them being cut off, that is illegal and just as crazy as that woman moving into my lane. We OC so those people will act out on the next person without a gun that thinks a cop will save them, not me.

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    First of all, it is not the act of OC during driving that was at the core of my argument. It is the stated reason for doing so. I tlhink if you are going to OC on your bike or anywhere for that matter because it's your right to do so, for self defense or to comply with state law in the exercise of your 2nd amendment rights as a US Citizen,that is fine. But I believe that stating your reason for opencarrying as being a deterrent for traffic collisions is being somewhat boisterous in this state. Maybe anywhere. I further think it may place you at a disadvantage in defending yourself should you be charged with any crime related to your open carrying while driving your bike, mainly because your posts may be dredged up as evidence of your intent. There's a perception out there already when it comes to open carrying. I don't believe it will serve any good purpose to play into the hands of detractors, especially those who may be prosecutors. After all, it is not me that is going to accuse you of being a wacko motorist who shoots because they got cut off. I'm an open carry proponent and won't be on your jury.

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    But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
    This is the line that makes it all bad. You are setting your mindset that a near collision is justification to use that weapon. Open carry all you want. Im not against the movement in general... just some of the people involved who don't have a full grasp on laws relating to lethal force. 20+ years of riding for me. Yes there have been some close calls. I have shouted a few bad words and obsene gestures... But I have learned to look for the warning signs and take counter manuevers. Never have I felt a gun was needed. I choose to ride knowing that it is a very dangerous sport/hobby. I ride upwards of 25k miles a year. There are 2 types of M/C riders. Those that have been down, and those that have yet to go down.

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    ConsideringOC wrote:
    But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
    This is the line that makes it all bad. You are setting your mindset that a near collision is justification to use that weapon.
    The only possible use of the weapon is holstered, as a deterrent against intentional homicidal collisions (when they look right at you and try to hit you or force you to collide with other objects/the ground).

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    then dont ride

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    ConsideringOC wrote:
    then dont ride
    One could say the same thing against ever stepping out of your front door with a holstered gun. Why arbitrarily restrict your sphere of crime deterrence and create periods of time where nobody gives a crap whether they can murder you or not?

    That's exactly what the countless infringements on the 2A were created for! So us proles can eat caca and die!

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