Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: OC/CC in Town Point Park, Norfolk?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    42

    Post imported post

    Thought I would run this by the OC crowd to see if they could find any reason I could not OC/CC at the Virginia Wine Festival. My Fiance and I will be the designated drivers for the group we are going with and we both would like carry while we are there.

    http://www.festeventsva.org/mini-sit...-special-notes

    ------------------------

    [size=Rules and Regulations]

    • No animals, except hearing /dog animals and service/dog animals or animals utilized in law enforcement, are permitted in the park, unless otherwise posted.
    • No glass containers may be brought into the park at any time.
    • No alcoholic beverages may be brought into the aprk at any time.
    • Persons must be at least 21 years of age with a valid photo ID to purchase and/or consume alcoholic beverages.
    • Skates, skateboards and bicycles are not permitted in the park.
    • City of Norfolk Codes and Ordinances Sections 25.2-60 through 25.2-99, govern Town Point Park. For the safety of all, the Norfolk Police may screen persons entering the park.
    • Norfolk Festevents reserves the right to postpone, cancel and/or evacuate events due to adverse weather conditions.
    NOTICE: These regulations do not alter or change State or City laws in any manner and you are subject to all applicable State or City laws.

    -------------------------

    I also checked out the Norfolk Code 25.2-60 through 25.2-99 and could not find anything preventing me from OC'ing. The code can be found by clicking the link below.

    http://library1.municode.com:80/defa...infobase=10121

    Any help would be most appreciated!



  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    Nothing in the City Code says you cannot. Even if it did, it would not have the force of law thanks to preemption.

    Be sure to ask if they have a DD wristband, and if there are "goodies" for DDs. If not, be sure to complain.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  3. #3
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    It is my understanding that the ABC licenses are granted to the individual vendors and that in no way supersedes the state preemption statute.

    While some would likely frown upon it (bad publicity) it would still not be illegal for you to imbibe, but it would be an officer's judgment that determined if you were inebriated.

    I assume they would utilize the same tactics as a field sobriety test, likely culminating with a breathalyzer exam.

    Best solution - follow Skid's advice. Ask for a DD package and enjoy the antics of others.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  4. #4
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    I've OC'd in Town Point Park several times. One of those memorable events was Harborfest. Stayed around for the concert and had a few :shock:, but also had some very nice conversations with folks and had a chance to educate some folks that were new to the area and interested in OCing. While at the concert, I also happened to notice several pairs of "professional" folks on the roof tops of the buildings downtown. Didn't see any rifles displayed but they sure looked like shooter/spotter pairs to me.

    Left the concert early because Greenwood wasn't quite as good as he used to be. guess we're both getting old.:?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    This is a close call. For "exclusive" events where the Park is gated off and you have to pay an admission fee to enter, the park is basically leased to Festevents, a private company, for its exclusive use (as opposed to Harborfest, where the park remains open to the public). If Festevents prohibits guns and you are asked to leave, you could be cited for trespassing if you refuse to a la Danbus at Waterside. Until someone gets convicted of such an offense and appeals to a court of record, we won't have any clear guidance on this issue. You probably don't want that person to be you, Danbus won the criminal case but apparently hasn't been able to find a lawyer to sue over the Waterside incident (i.e. no case) and is losing his shirt (and selling his guns) in the meantime.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    Danbus, unfortunately, had no civil case exactly because there was no prior case law. Thus, no cop could be expected to know the law, thus no case.

    I have not done an exhaustive search, but I did not find anything in the municipal code permitting "exclusive" use of public property. And even if such were possible, a government cannot lease away its laws.

    Again, there is no case law on the issue that I can find, but the point is to either convince cities/towns/counties thast they do not want to find out the "hard" way that they cannot arbitrarily abbrogate their responsibility to uphold the law by leasing public space, or convince them the "hard" way by lawsuits.

    Your position of "take the safe route - do not push the issue" just allows them to continue their current behavior.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  7. #7
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    Ed:
    Like we discussed at the range: You can OC because its city property and must OC because of the ABC liscense. I'm sure after the Danbus incidents, the city changed any silly laws they had that were covered by preemption. Have fun, Brother!

    Semper Paratus!
    msc
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  8. #8
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Midlothian, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    596

    Post imported post

    Since this is not a restaurant or a club where the event is being held, you don't have to OC unless you want to.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,000

    Post imported post

    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    Ed:
    Like we discussed at the range: You can OC because its city property and must OC because of the ABC liscense. I'm sure after the Danbus incidents, the city changed any silly laws they had that were covered by preemption. Have fun, Brother!

    Semper Paratus!
    msc
    MSC,

    This is Norfolk we are talking about. The city isn't exactly run by the sharpest tools in the shed.

  10. #10
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    I grew up in Norfolk. I know what you're talking about. They don't learn very quickly, but they learn eventually (sometimes). Have they recovered from their sillyazz school bussing plan yet? I lived within walking distance from Granby Elementary, but was BUSSED across the river south to JEB Stewart Elementary. Northside wasn't very far, but rode a bus for a LONG time to Campostella (across 2 rivers and in the heart of the worst part of Norfolk). I finally got to WALK to Granby High when the time came.

    They never should have gotten rid of the Granby St. street cars. They would have been much more efficient than the bus system.
    Oh, By the way... "SAILORS AND DOGS, KEEP OFF THE GRASS!"
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,000

    Post imported post

    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    I grew up in Norfolk. I know what you're talking about. They don't learn very quickly, but they learn eventually (sometimes). Have they recovered from their sillyazz school bussing plan yet? I lived within walking distance from Granby Elementary, but was BUSSED across the river south to JEB Stewart Elementary. Northside wasn't very far, but rode a bus for a LONG time to Campostella (across 2 rivers and in the heart of the worst part of Norfolk). I finally got to WALK to Granby High when the time came.

    They never should have gotten rid of the Granby St. street cars. They would have been much more efficient than the bus system.
    Oh, By the way... "SAILORS AND DOGS, KEEP OFF THE GRASS!"
    Wow, you grew up where I currently live. I'm just over a 1/4 mile north from Granby Elementary & HS. The middle school for our neighborhood is Northside.

    Silly bussing? Are you joking? They've only made it worse this year (most years I count it as a success if they don't screw it up further). All future 6th graders that would have gone to Northside will have to go to a different middle school (Blair). For 7th & 8th grades, they'll go to Northside. For me, that means 3 of my 4 will be going to 4 different schools rather than just 3.

    We don't even need to talk about the 'bus stops', schedules, and busses nearly hitting my children.

    Yes, it's a very sore spot for me.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    I know your area well. Family used to be members of the "JCC" near you and dated a girl thatlived in the light green house on the corner of Maycox & Newport. I think the old JCC is now owned by the city, right? I grew up in Cromwell Farms on the Lafayette River. A couple blocks south of GHS on the other side of the street. When folding papers (for paper route)on the corner of Blake Rd and Granby, we would ride our bikes to the 7-11 at Cedar Level and Little Creek for morning munchies at 0300.

    Does anyone OC in that area now? I hear the crime rate around Wards Corner has really gotten bad. I stop at the used book store whenever I visit down there. I remember when the Peoples Drug store and the K&K Toy store had soda fountains. K&K had the most AMAZING chocolate malts!
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,000

    Post imported post

    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    I know your area well. Family used to be members of the "JCC" near you and dated a girl thatlived in the light green house on the corner of Maycox & Newport. I think the old JCC is now owned by the city, right? I grew up in Cromwell Farms on the Lafayette River. A couple blocks south of GHS on the other side of the street. When folding papers (for paper route)on the corner of Blake Rd and Granby, we would ride our bikes to the 7-11 at Cedar Level and Little Creek for morning munchies at 0300.

    Does anyone OC in that area now? I hear the crime rate around Wards Corner has really gotten bad. I stop at the used book store whenever I visit down there. I remember when the Peoples Drug store and the K&K Toy store had soda fountains. K&K had the most AMAZING chocolate malts!
    My wife & I do occasionally OC when we're out together and we're going to OC friendly places. Otherwise we will CC. Generally once I get home, I'm home for the night.

    Most of the crime / criminal elements come out at night. During the daylight hours, it's fairly tame in the area though there was a morning bank robbery at a Wachovia just south of LC & Granby last year or the year before I believe.

    That said, my OCing of a firearm has stopped two potential muggings. One was at the walmart on North Military Hwy. & the other was at the BoA ATM in Ward's Corner. Both times, once the BG realized I had a firearm readily available, the eyes got big and they hightailed it away.

    That aside, I'm always armed when I leave the house. Having those two incidents happen have cemented my desire to always be prepared.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •