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Thread: Why Unloaded Open Carry??

  1. #1
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    OK...I'm new here and haven't searched the forums yet, so don't flame me too badly.

    I'm new to this idea of Unloaded Open Carry. I live in a portion of CA that does not issue CCW permits to the average law abiding citizen. I have a Utah non-resident CCW card that covers me when I travel out of state, but that does me no good in my home town and working environment. This issue of UOC intrigues me a bit, but I don't fully understand it. Is it not illegal to have a sidearm worn on your person with a loaded magazine readily accessible? Could someone please explain this theory to me? I would see no point in carrying a weapon around that was not loaded and unable to have live rounds on my person. Sorry to be confused, but this is new to me.



    Thanks

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Welcome to California OCDO! Since you're new here... Check out www.californiaopencarry.org for information regarding California Penal Codes, Pamphlets, "how-to's" and fliers.

    To answer your question... The racially-motivated Mulford act in 1967 brought forth PC ┬ž12031, which prohibited loaded firearms in public places (namely incorporated cities). If you do plan on open carrying, it is very well possible that you will be stopped and a 12031 (e) check performed on your firearm to ensure your compliance with the law.

    Simply put, we don't have Loaded Open Carry as a majority of the other states do. At least, not yet. Once CA has incorporation of the 2nd Amendment again, CalGuns will be working on a rights-restoration campaign in the courts.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Above all, it is a protest against the current law.

    Read Californiaopencarry.org in its entirety to understand it fully.

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    I enjoy watching the utter chaos the sight of my firearm causes.

    Oh yeah! Women fainting, children self aborting, lesser men ******* their pants and falling quivering to the ground. The Police totally inept at controlling the situation as the mob falls into a swelling riot of dooooooooommmm!



    Other than that, it's a heck ofa lot better than wishing I had a sharp stick

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    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    Above all, it is a protest against the current law.

    Read Californiaopencarry.org in its entirety to understand it fully.
    Well some have CCW and still open carry I hear. To me it would be protest and still having the ability to protect myself, because you can carry live ammo on your person.

    wolfeinsteinmentioned 'whats the point ifI cant have live rounds on his person'. In reality, the law provides you can wolfeinstein, as long as they are openly visible as well and not in the gun. There are so many other restrictions that apply like not being within 1000 feet of aK-12 school..so do not open carry until you have either watched videos or read up on how to OC properly.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    Hank Dodge wrote:
    Is it not illegal to have a sidearm worn on your person with a loaded magazine readily accessible?┬* Could someone please explain this theory to me?┬* I would see no point in carrying a weapon around that was not loaded and unable to have live rounds on my person.
    PC 12031 states that you may not have a loaded firearm on your person or in your possession in public. People v. Clark was a case that defined what exactly constitutes a loaded firearm. In order for the firearm to be loaded, ammunition must be placed into a position from which it can be fired. That means either a round in the chamber, or in a magazine inserted into the weapon.

    Nowhere does the penal code specify that you may not possess ammunition on your person, or even loaded into a magazine, as long as that magazine is not inserted into the weapon. Clark even found that a shotgun with an ammunition carrier device attached with live rounds in the carrier did not constitute a loaded weapon since the rounds were not in a position from which they could be fired.

    There is another case that held that a loaded magazine, being an integral part of the weapon (i.e. the weapon cannot properly function without it), could be considered a concealed weapon by itself, so that is why we must openly carry loaded magazines while open carrying. Loose rounds may be concealed, as well as rounds loaded into a speedloader for a revolver, since a speedloader is not an integral part of the weapon.

    That is where the law currently is in California in regards to the possession of a firearm as well as ammunition on your person.
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    edit!
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Welcome Hank Dodge! Definitely check out californiaopencarry for the penal codes and links to others' experiences. This will give you a solid foundation in the law, LEO application thereof, and how to protect yourself. Here are the basic steps...

    1. UOC is legal as long as you're outside of the 1K' GFSZ...AND...

    2. Your loaded magazines are NOT concealed (ie mag holders on weak side)...OR...

    3.Your speed loaders and/or loose ammo in pocket...AND...

    4. You don't go into any government building, post office, library, etc....AND...

    5. For your protection, you carry a voice recorder that is on and recording at all times, and possibly a backup voice recorder, and/or a video recorder, and/or have a non-UOC witness with you.

    The above 5 steps are simplistic, quick steps to give you the general idea. Be sure to KNOW the PC's to the best of your ability. More than likely you will need this knowledge to protect yourself from an uninformed LEO or an LEO who just wants to try to turn up the heat a little. And I recommend you meetup with some local UOC group first to warm up to all the steps and precautions.

    Carry On!
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    Well now, that's an interesting take on things. I can see a definate use for this at times. I'm not wanting to attract a bunch of negative law enforcement attention to myself and I certainly can't afford a court battle over it, but I can see a number of applications where I now know that I could be within the boundry of thelaw.

    Keep me in the loop with that local UOC gathering. Anything I can do to encourage and promote firearms deregulation here in kalifornia I'm all for.

    Now I need another holster.............

  10. #10
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    Hank Dodge wrote:
    ...I'm not wanting to attract a bunch of negative law enforcement attention to myself and I certainly can't afford a court battle over it...
    For your situation, you may wish to consider LUCC (Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry) - aka "poor man CCW".

    You can in fact carry a concealed weapon without the permission of your local bureacrat... but not in the way you probably want to.

    I trust you can utilize the forum search function to find all the info you need on LUCC, but I'll describe it briefly here to give you an idea.

    12025 does not apply to any handgun that is in a locked case. 626.9 also exempts the "otherwise lawful transport" of handguns. 12031 still applies even if your firearm is locked up, but you could just keep the ammo right there in the same locking container.

    This method is low-profile (unless your container is obviously a gun case), so very little chance of a 12031(e) check by LE, and is also far superior to asking the BG to let you drive home to retrieve your gun. Just unlock, load, line up sights.

    Again, we've covered this topic fairly extensively before, so please find that topic via the search function.

    Carry on.
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    That's basically the way I do things. I've been stuck in too many bad situations that were way beyond my control over the years. I find it comforting to have a small pack with some provisions and personal items along for the ride. This pack travels with me whenever I leave the house. As an addition to this I generally have my 1911, a holster, and a few mags in a locked case carried along as well. The likelihood of me needing to spend a few nights on the road is not uncommon in my line of work. This set-up works well for that and any other emergency that might arise.



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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Hank Dodge wrote:
    ...I'm not wanting to attract a bunch of negative law enforcement attention to myself and I certainly can't afford a court battle over it...
    For your situation, you may wish to consider LUCC (Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry) - aka "poor man CCW".
    Can we please stop calling LUCC poor man's CCW? I realize there are several definitions to the term "poor", but I much prefer "oppressed" in this case. LUCC is reallyoppressed man's carry.


    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    coolusername2007 wrote:
    Can we please stop calling LUCC poor man's CCW? I realize there are several definitions to the term "poor", but I much prefer "oppressed" in this case. LUCC is reallyoppressed man's carry.
    LOL, +1.

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    Regular Member Legend_AB's Avatar
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    Army wrote:
    I enjoy watching the utter chaos the sight of my firearm causes.

    Oh yeah! Women fainting, children self aborting, lesser men ******* their pants and falling quivering to the ground. The Police totally inept at controlling the situation as the mob falls into a swelling riot of dooooooooommmm!



    Other than that, it's a heck ofa lot better than wishing I had a sharp stick
    LMFAO, Army!

    And welcome to OCDO Hank Dodge.

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    coolusername2007 wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Hank Dodge wrote:
    ...I'm not wanting to attract a bunch of negative law enforcement attention to myself and I certainly can't afford a court battle over it...
    For your situation, you may wish to consider LUCC (Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry) - aka "poor man CCW".
    Can we please stop calling LUCC poor man's CCW?┬* I realize there are several definitions to the term "poor", but I much prefer "oppressed" in this case.┬* LUCC is really┬*oppressed man's carry.

    ┬*
    A rich man would be able to make the appropriate bribe (err... I mean campaign contribution) to the sheriff. So maybe it is the poor man's option.

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