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Thread: Statitics?

  1. #1
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    I got into a debate today at work with a couple of hardcore anti's. They were claiming that it is 30x more likely that your kids or someone you know will be hurt accidently with your own gun than using it for defense.

    I told them that number was contrived by groups who are against guns and not a real statistic. I need some ammo, so-to-speak, to counter these and other common anti arguments.

    It came up because one of them brought up the soccer mom incident which is currently being discussed in another thread. "Why would somebody be there carrying a gun at a kid's soccer game?"

    Thanks

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    More people die accidentally from doctors than accidentally from guns by a huge percent if i am remembering correctly. It's been a while, don't have any numbers.

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    GlocksRfun wrote:
    More people die accidentally from doctors than accidentally from guns by a huge percent if i am remembering correctly. It's been a while, don't have any numbers.

    The guys I was talking to will LOVE this one - they are pushing for the single-payer health care.

    So how many doctors (MD)are there compared to the number of guns out there :P




    edit: thanks for the links!

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    Those are some interesting statistics. I may have to pull up a few of their sources for more details.

    thanks,
    geoff

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    I read somewhere that more people get hurt or killed as a result of drunk diving than with fire arms, I believe it. Funny too because the last Anti I ran into was pretty tanked and then walked to his car to drive off until his buddy stopped him.
    Former Corporal of Marines.

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    I've been reading up on statistics as well to use as ammo (yay for this pun) in arguments and have found many anti-gun statistics are so poorly thought out that they work in my favor on most occasions.

    Example: "You are 10 times (I've seen a few number variations, all were around 10 though) more likely to kill yourself with a gun than an intruder in your home."

    When I read this one it did seem like a pretty strong argument at first, but then I thought into it further. (and remembered some other statistics.) For one, I read elsewhere that something like 95% of encounters where the victim was able to pull a gun on the assaulter ended without death, which would turn the tables for this argument. Just an example but from what I've seen most of the anti-gun statistics will be like this.

    Of course child safety is one they throw around a lot, quoting things like "a child dies from a gun every 3 hours" http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/17...Y-GUNFIRE.html
    The skewer in this argument is found in the graph on that page. 90% of the deaths occur in the 15-19 range(so gang-violence), and with the rest of the information given by the graph it turns out to be more about anti-gang than anti-gun.

    Though the "comparison" arguments seem pretty overused to me, they are still effective. By using the chart found here,

    http://danger.mongabay.com/injury_death.htm

    I can argue that a year 2000 study found that a person had a 1/242 chance of dieing as a car occupant, and a 1/4613 chance of dieing due to accidental firearms discharge, as a support for guns (or an argument against cars). Even better, I could state that a person had a 1/331 chance of being killed by an assaulter with a firearm. But of course they put "intentional self-harm by firearm" at 1/216, which might be a bad statistic for us, but I would want to know how many of those people used a new gun (bought for the purpose of suicide) or a gun they didn't own.

    Statistics are fun to throw around, but a statistic-war would rarely lead anywhere. Only use I have found for them is when a casual supporter of anti-gun laws states their one token statistic or situation as argument. Other than that they seem to be too misleading for anything else. I would rather just state that it's my right to be able to own and carry a gun no matter what the statistics say and leave it at that. (That's more of a Thoreau/Civil disobedience sort of thing than an argument though.)

    http://cedrac-standup.blogspot.com/2...fallacies.html is another fair site. Lots of them out there. Even if the statistic is pro-gun don't believe it without thought though.

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    Thanks for all the info.

    I remember stats class in college - first thing the professor told us was about how statistics can be skewed so you must look at the sources of the data andthe agendas behind them.

    I mainly want some statistic type arguing points more to deflate the "statistics" thrown my way by the anti's

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    48.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot. lol

    I agree completely with the above post, that stats are largely skewed to support whatever point of view that the person is trying to press. They all need to be taken with a grain of salt. It's like saying that 100% of guns used to commit crimes in Milwaukee were from Badger Guns. It'sa one horse town, so there you have it...

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    Here's a useful 'statistic' re Badger Guns, there will always be a worst gun shop as long as there are gun shops and gun grabbers to define 'worst'.

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