Playing the race card

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I probably should not post this here, the other side will cut and paste it and use it out of context, but I just have to share this story with you guys.

Got into a nice discussion with a liberal relative tonight about gun issues. Here is the interesting part after he already spouted off about how evil guns are and all the deaths and guns kill people and blah blah blah:

Me: So what is your ultimate goal?

Him: To prevent loss of life by firearms.

Me: So if you infringe on the constitutional rights of people, but it saves lives its ok?

Him: Definitely, all life is precious and a minor infraction of your rights to save thousands of lives is a trade off we should be willing to make.

Me: Ok then, they should make it illegal for black males to buy guns.

Him: (Looking like he is going to shi* his pants) WHAT? How can you say that?

Me: Well, if your ultimate goal is to save lives, and seeing that around 90% of people that use guns to kill people in this city are black males, we should make it illegal for them to have guns and hundreds of lives will be saved every year just in Milwaukee.

Him: You can't do that, it would be blatant discrimination!

Me: You mean their rights would be infringed?

Him: Yeah.

Me: But it would save lives, isn't that your ultimate goal? Isn't that a trade off you are willing to make?

Him: But you can't keep people from having guns just because of race.

Me: Right, and you can't ban law abiding people from having guns because a few criminals violate the law. My right to keep and bear arms is just as important as someone's right to be treated equally. They are both enumerated in the constitution and its wrong to take either away, no matter what the "trade off".

Him: Never thought of it that way.

Now, I want to make it clear I DO NOT believe anyone, regardless of race, should be "banned" from having guns. The statement was used to prove a point only. Please don't message me and call me a racist, thanks!

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Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

- Benjamin Franklin

The words are so old, but still say it all.

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Constitutionalist:

Excellent post. Says it like it is and put's it in a perspective that everyone should be able to understand. Truth has nothing to do with race. Truth does not discriminate.

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*

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Very nice example.

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AaronS wrote:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

- Benjamin Franklin

The words are so old, but still say it all.

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God, I wish I would have known that quote last night!! Man that would have floored him! Got it locked in the memory banks now though!

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Before you, y'all, use it, maybe you should understand its context.

That quotation will not be found printed in a book authored by Franklin. Franklin quoted another, in print, paraphrasing that statement and he handwrote it. He certainly believed it and may have said it but not in print authored by him.

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I applaud Constitutionalist for ignoring the incarceration of poiltical correctness and posting his experience. Very few of our liberties have been won by people concerned with being politically correct, Martin luther King, Rosie Parks, Sarah Barton, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln and even the framers of the Constitution themselves, to name a few, were considered by many to be radicals. Fortunately each of them didn't let their thirst for freedom succumb to the nectar of political correctness.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Before you, y'all, use it, maybe you should understand its context.

That quotation will not be found printed in a book authored by Franklin. Franklin quoted another, in print, paraphrasing that statement and he handwrote it. He certainly believed it and may have said it but not in print authored by him.

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• They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
  • This was written by Franklin, with quotation marks but almost certainly his original thought, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly, as published in Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818). A variant of this was published as:
    • Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
      • This was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759); the book was published by Franklin; its author was Richard Jackson, but Franklin did claim responsibility for some small excerpts that were used in it.
  • An earlier variant by Franklin in Poor Richard's Almanack (1738): "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
  • The saying has also appeared in many paraphrased forms:
    • They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    • 
      They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    • 
      Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
      He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.
    • 
      He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.
    • 
      People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.
    • 
      If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both.
    • 
      Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
    • 
      He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.
    • 
      Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.
    • 
      Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.

I think its ok to use it an attribute it to Franklin.

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Constitutionalist wrote:

This was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759); the book was published by Franklin; its author was Richard Jackson, but Franklin did claim responsibility for some small excerpts that were used in it.

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I think its ok to use it an attribute it to Franklin.

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A self-serving statement if there ever was one.

What about Poor Richard Jackson? It would seem that your cut&paste substantiates my criticism and falsely attributes Jackson's published work to Franklin's credit. Does the publisher get credit for title page mottos authored by another?

To be clear, these aphorisms quoted below are mine and created out of whole cloth.

"Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth." "The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense."

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It matters not who penned or mouthed the words. They are as true today as they ever were.

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Well done. I think using a race example was appropriate because I think the gun rights movement isn't too unlike the civil rights movement of the 60's-- we want our rights acknowledged and respected also. We're starting to sit at the front of the bus!

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Oh, I agree absolutely! So let the statement enter the common consciousness as a meme and not strut false erudition. Ben's not with us to get troll-like pleasure seeing his name used carelessly.

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Touche' on Ben Doug.

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an excellent way to get libs attention and make them see a little bit of the light of truth.

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Lammie wrote:

It matters not who penned or mouthed the words. They are as true today as they ever were.

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+100

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The example is Ironic in only that gun control began with disarming African Americans.

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ngn-download-view.htm

And I stand by my earlier statement. An excellent example and very well taught.

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Well done Constitutionalist! You probably started a chain reaction with that former gun grabber to tell all his friends.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Before you, y'all, use it, maybe you should understand its context.

That quotation will not be found printed in a book authored by Franklin. Franklin quoted another, in print, paraphrasing that statement and he handwrote it. He certainly believed it and may have said it but not in print authored by him.

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This is very true. This "kind" of quotation might just go back to the Greeks. It is a very old idea, one that should never die.

It surmises my feelings, a lot like "e pluribus unum". It is the only way America works, if it does...

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Experience has shewn, that even under the best form of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operation, perverted it into tyranny.

T. Jefferson