Big Round of Applause for this Sheriffs Deputy :)

N6ATF · Oct 10, 2009

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Citizen wrote:

marshaul wrote:

SNIP...there's no evidence to suggest criminals know the law.

Click to expand...

Not at the rate they've beenillegally detaining OCers in various states, and occasionally arresting them.

(Oops. I did not say that . I did not say that.)

Ha, beat me to it. I was about to say "Only criminals in government, they know exactly what laws to violate on a daily basis..."

camsoup · Oct 10, 2009

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Task Force 16 wrote

In my opinion, UOC is stupid. All a BG has to do is approach someone that is UOO and draw his own CC laoded gun on the UOC and then steal their weapons and ammo. The UOC'er doesn't have a prayer of drawing and laoding his own SD weapon with a loaded gun already pointed at him. I mean, it's hard enough to do if you carry loaded OC.

And all a BG has to do is draw his own weapon on anyone CC and steal everything they have, there is no way for anyone to draw their CC gun fast enough when the BG is already pointing his gun at them.

All a BG has to do..... Just another way of saying "what if"

I would rather have a firearm on me (unloaded) than not have one at all.

coolusername2007 · Oct 10, 2009

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Bad_Ace your LEO encounters have certainly made you a pro at handling them. Your listening skills and quick responses are to be commended.

I especially liked the 4 second pause where he decided if he was going to actually do an echeck or not, and then decided his time was better spent doing something else. I also like how they always try to "disarm" you with their sweet-talk..."nice dog", "haven't met you yet", etc. Next they'll be saying "let's get together and have a few laughs."

Just curious,do we have to answer the question "is your gun loaded?" Isthe question in and of itselfan echeck?

coolusername2007 · Oct 10, 2009

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Task Force 16 wrote:

In my opinion, UOC is stupid.

I completely agree! UOC is stupid. BUT...it's all we have. For the most part we cannot get CCW permits and we cannot LOC in incorporated cities due to race based radical legislation. So until2A is incorporated, we UOC because its better than NO OC.

Task Force 16 · Oct 10, 2009

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coolusername2007 wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

In my opinion, UOC is stupid.

Click to expand...

I completely agree! UOC is stupid. BUT...it's all we have. For the most part we cannot get CCW permits and we cannot LOC in incorporated cities due to race based radical legislation. So until2A is incorporated, we UOC because its better than NO OC.

Don't get me wrong, fella's. I'm not saying that YOU are stupid for doing it. I'm saying that the law is stupid for causing you to have to.

pullnshoot25 · Oct 10, 2009

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That is why we protest.

coolusername2007 · Oct 10, 2009

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Task Force 16 wrote:

coolusername2007 wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

In my opinion, UOC is stupid.

Click to expand...

I completely agree! UOC is stupid. BUT...it's all we have. For the most part we cannot get CCW permits and we cannot LOC in incorporated cities due to race based radical legislation. So until2A is incorporated, we UOC because its better than NO OC.

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, fella's. I'm not saying that YOU are stupid for doing it. I'm saying that the law is stupid for causing you to have to.

No problem at all. I noticed you were from TN and thought maybe you didn't know the situation here deep behind the lines in the PRK.

Task Force 16 · Oct 10, 2009

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coolusername2007 wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

coolusername2007 wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

In my opinion, UOC is stupid.

Click to expand...

I completely agree! UOC is stupid. BUT...it's all we have. For the most part we cannot get CCW permits and we cannot LOC in incorporated cities due to race based radical legislation. So until2A is incorporated, we UOC because its better than NO OC.

Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, fella's. I'm not saying that YOU are stupid for doing it. I'm saying that the law is stupid for causing you to have to.

Click to expand...

No problem at all. I noticed you were from TN and thought maybe you didn't know the situation here deep behind the lines in the PRK.

Nooo....

I've read enough about LaLa Land on these forums to know what a mess you have out there.

CA_Libertarian · Oct 11, 2009

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Sounds like a totally consentual conversation, and you were free to go at any time.

I like that you refused to answer his questions, and he didn't take it personally. Good to hear about it when it goes the way it should.

I agree with not writing letters for them being respectful AS THEY SHOULD BE to their fellow countrymen. Leave those for when they do something above and beyond what we are entitled to.

Carry on.

CA_Libertarian · Oct 11, 2009

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Task Force 16 wrote:

...[The BGs] are less likely to attempt to victemize someone that is OC a laoded side arm, though.

The forum rules insist that those making claims must substantiate them with citations/references. I don't believe there is any research that proves that bad guys are more likely to rob a person carrying an unloaded firearm. It's your assertion; prove it to me.

A proper citation/reference to convince me would need to be some sort of peer-reviewed research/study that found a statistically significant link between people carrying unloaded handguns and being robbed of their unloaded weapon... or something similarly convincing.

Until your proof is provided... I'm calling this FUD.

Carry on.

CA_Libertarian · Oct 11, 2009

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Task Force 16 wrote:

Don't get me wrong, fella's. I'm not saying that YOU are stupid for doing it. I'm saying that the law is stupid for causing you to have to.

Glad to see you're just expressing your empathy; just realize that here in CA the OC movement is met with much resistance among even "pro-gun" people. So when we find someone saying "this is stupid" it's easy to hear it as "you're stupid for doing this."

(I still think you're wrong about UOC being more of a thief magnet - or less of a thief deterrent - than LOC.)

bad_ace · Oct 11, 2009

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coolusername2007 wrote:

Just curious, do we have to answer the question "is your gun loaded?" Is the question in and of itself an echeck?

No more than I have to answer the question "Do you love men?"
I don't have to answer any of his questions. I was just being as polite as he was. If I felt different or wanted to set an example I wouldn't have said a word. For all he knows I could have been born deaf/dumb.

Oh and thanks for the kind words.

Just remembered I vowed to recruit one open carrier every time the local PD stops me. Guess I'll be going to Kinkos to print out more of your pamphlets.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 11, 2009

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marshaul wrote:

Task Force 16 wrote:

In my opinion, UOC is stupid. All a BG has to do is approach someone that is UOO and draw his own CC laoded gun on the UOC and then steal their weapons and ammo. The UOC'er doesn't have a prayer of drawing and laoding his own SD weapon with a loaded gun already pointed at him. I mean, it's hard enough to do if you carry loaded OC.

Click to expand...

In my opinion OC is stupid because the bad guy can get the drop on you, and once you've got his .45 in your face you don't have a prayer of drawing and he can steal your gun.

I just had a discussion about this with local deputy chief of police, he assured me reaction almost beats action everytime.

He asked me if , since I was open carring loaded at the time, if he had a gun pointed at me do I think I could draw and shoot him before he pulled the trigger? I said no. He then told me about a bunch of studies that showed thats not true and it made sense. He quoted the University and the studies along with it but I don't have them handy or remember them now.

J.A.G. · Oct 12, 2009

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You're generalizing... which is all we really can do anyway.

But how far is said suspect from you? within arms reach? 4ft away? 10ft? more than 10? What kind of gun is he holding? a wheel gun? a .22? a gun that we would all look at and laugh if our friend came to us and said, "hey dude, I just bought this gun for $100 at the gun shop today... isn't it badass!?" and we all know its the biggest piece of shit, and even if it does fire, there's like a 99% chance that it will have some sort of malfunction?

If a guy was holding a gun point blank in my face... I'm pretty confident (with the training I've had), that i can disarm him, and create enough distance and time for myself to draw and take the bullets out of my magazine the loud way...

there are so many variables, its impossible to speculate... and its incredibly difficult to try and put statistics to.

Old Timer · Oct 13, 2009

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J.A.G. wrote:

You're generalizing... which is all we really can do anyway.

But how far is said suspect from you? within arms reach? 4ft away? 10ft? more than 10? What kind of gun is he holding? a wheel gun? a .22? a gun that we would all look at and laugh if our friend came to us and said, "hey dude, I just bought this gun for $100 at the gun shop today... isn't it badass!?" and we all know its the biggest piece of @#$%, and even if it does fire, there's like a 99% chance that it will have some sort of malfunction?

If a guy was holding a gun point blank in my face... I'm pretty confident (with the training I've had), that i can disarm him, and create enough distance and time for myself to draw and take the bullets out of my magazine the loud way...

there are so many variables, its impossible to speculate... and its incredibly difficult to try and put statistics to.

Good luck with that!

Decoligny · Oct 13, 2009

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Task Force 16 wrote:

marshaul wrote:

So the bad guys are now lawyers, even though they ignore the law in their own life?

A bad guy sees a gun, and he's able to figure whether it's an incorporated area, whether the guy is a off-duty LEO, that there is no backup piece concealed, etc etc etc.

Those are a lot of assumptions to make. That, and there's no evidence to suggest criminals know the law.

Click to expand...

1) Just because the BG's "ignore" the law doesn't mean that they don't have any knowledge of it. The majority of them at least know to lawyer up before answering LEO questions. I think you're making an assumption that all BG's are idiots, they are not.

2)Don't know what the laws are in California re off duty LEO carry, but if they can OC loaded, that would pretty well make them destinctive from LAC UAC. All the BG has to do is look at the butt of the sidearm (assumming most people carry semi-autos). If there's no mag in the handle, it's not loaded and most likely not a LEO.

Again, you are assuming that all BG's are to stupid to figure this out themselves.

3) Assumptions? I think what we have both brought up here are "variables" that may apply to any given situation.

There is no law that says you have to carry without "a mag in the handle".

Most people UOC with an empty in the magazine well. This does two things, it keeps the criminal guessing, and it keeps debris out of the magazine well.

Captain_Awesome · Oct 13, 2009

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It's always nice to hear about contacts, and it's especially encouraging to hear about the ones that went well. Congratulations bad_ace. Seems like you handled it very well, regardless of how kind the deputy was.

Big Round of Applause for this Sheriffs Deputy :)

N6ATF

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camsoup

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coolusername2007

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coolusername2007

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Task Force 16

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pullnshoot25

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coolusername2007

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Task Force 16

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CA_Libertarian

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CA_Libertarian

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bad_ace

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sudden valley gunner

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J.A.G.

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Old Timer

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Decoligny

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Captain_Awesome

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