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Thread: Declartory Ruling Update

  1. #1
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    This is the latest update on getting answers regarding firearms issues in Connecticut.

    On Thursday October 8, 2009 the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners voted to answer Question #3of sixteen questions submitted in a recent request fordeclaratory rulings.

    If is not yet known if answers to Questions 5 and 14 will be answered, and if they are, who will provide the answers.

    The Board of Firearms Permit Examiners and the Department of Public Safety are very aware of the recent decision of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in Spinelli v. New York. The Spinelli case involved the length of time between a revocation and a hearing, an issue that has plagued Connecticut appellants who have had permits denied and revokedfor some time.

    This is the question the board has chosen to answer.

    "During the initial application process for a Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers or Eligibility Certificate, must an applicant supply upon demand, additional information beyond what has been deemed sufficient, as required and mandated in the standard state application?"

    The other fifteen questions submitted are currently being reviewed by the Department of Public Safety and may result in additional answers in the future.

    There is a specific timetable for responding to requests for Declaratory Rulings, and it could take several months to get any answers.

    Here is a list of the questions submitted by Jack Goldberg father of James Goldberg and a retired police officer.

    III. QUESTIONS ON WHICH THE DECLARATORY RULING IS SOUGHT
    [/b]
    Petitioner requests Declaratory Rulings on each of the following questions:

    [/b][/b][/b]QUESTION 1[/b]: What authority and/or legal effect, (if any), does a Declaratory Ruling issued by the Commissioner of Public Safety have on sworn members of local law enforcement, The Board of Firearms Permit Examiners, The Connecticut Police Officers Standards and Training Council or any state or local government agency outside of the Commissioner’s Department?

    QUESTION 2[/b]: Are current holders of valid Permits to Carry Pistols and Revolvers required by law or regulation to submit additional Identifying documents beyond the currently issued valid Permit to Carry in order to renew their permit, and is a valid current permit to carry positive Identification for renewal purposes?

    QUESTION 3[/b]: During the initial application process for a Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers or Eligibility Certificate, must an applicant supply upon demand, additional information beyond what has been deemed sufficient, as required and mandated in the standard state application? (To be answered by the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners)

    QUESTION 4[/b]: In cases where individuals have more than one residence in the State of Connecticut, can the applicant choose the residence and jurisdiction to make application for a Temporary State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers or Eligibility Certificate?

    QUESTION 5[/b]: Is it currently permissible under state law for individuals to carry a pistol or revolver openly or concealed while in possession of a valid State Permit to Carry Pistols or Revolvers?

    QUESTION 6[/b]: Is service of a written revocation notification, (by in person hand delivery if necessary), mandatory if the revoking authority is NOT able to serve the notice of revocation by certified mail upon a person in possession of a Permit to Carry Pistols or Revolvers?

    QUESTION 7[/b]: Does any current State Statute or any regulation allow for confiscation of Valid Permits to Carry Pistols and Revolvers by State or Local Law Enforcement Agencies or employees during an incident or arrest for a non disqualifying crime or infraction?

    QUESTION 8[/b]: Is it legally permissible to carry exposed or concealed firearms in areas not prohibited by law or following notice by the owner of the location/property and if so, under what circumstances must a permit holder received notification from the owner that firearms are prohibited?

    QUESTION 9[/b]: Is a pro rated financial credit of permit fees paid or an extension of the Permit or Certificate expiration date mandated in situations where the permit or certificate was confiscated or revoked illegally or without just cause?

    QUESTION 10[/b]:Does the current statutory age requirement of 21 to obtain a State of Connecticut Eligibility Certificate or receive ownership of a handgun violate any State or Federal constitutional rights of 18, 19, and 20 year old residents?

    QUESTION 11[/b]: Does the current statutory requirement to pay fees at the time of initial application or renewal of Eligibility Certificates hinder, restrict or deny the constitutional right to purchase, transport and/or possess handguns in a private residence?

    QUESTION 12[/b]: Must members of law enforcement apply for and possess a court issued At Risk Warrant prior to the non criminal seizure of firearms from an individual or residence?

    QUESTION 13[/b]: May a non felon legally possess firearms in his or her residence if the residence is co-occupied by a convicted felon if the weapons are secured and not accessible to the felon who cohabitates with the owner of the firearm(s).

    QUESTION 14[/b]: Is carrying a holstered or properly secured, (not in the hand), openly exposed firearm while in possession of a valid permit to do so an element of any Connecticut Breach of Peace or Disorderly Conduct statutes?

    QUESTION 15[/b]: Must an individual who is not the subject of an At Risk Warrant issued in accordance with the provisions of CGS 29-38c surrender or remove their personally owned firearms and give up any related constitutional rights, (Federal and State), if another member of their household is the subject of an active At Risk Warrant?
    [/b]
    QUESTION 16[/b]: [/b]Does an individual in possession of a valid Permit to Carry Pistols or Revolvers have any type of property right in the permit?


    It is my understanding thatfailure to provide timely answer(s) or disagreement with any specific answer(s) renderedmay be appealed to the Superior Court.





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    I am trying to follow the procedural steps. Is this correct?

    Within sixty (60) days after receipt of a petition for a declaratory ruling, the Council, in writing, shall:


    1. Issue a ruling declaring the validity of a regulation or the applicability of the provision of the general statutes, the regulation, or the final decision in question to the specified proceedings;

    2. Order the matter set for a specified proceeding;

    3. Agree to issue a declaratory ruling by a specified date;

    4. Decide not to issue a declaratory ruling and initiate regulation-making proceedings under General Statutes § 4-168 on the subject; or

    5. Decide not to issue a declaratory ruling, stating the reasons for its action. (Regs., Conn. State Agencies § 16-50j-40 (c))



    If so, they decided to use option 3 for question 3. If so, did they specify a date for their answer?

    Thanks again Ed and Jack for pressing ahead...


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    To all who are following this topic, her is a link to the Board audio.

    http://www.ourrockyhill.com/00.DJ.in...Discussion.WMA

    Because they are going to break hairs on the wording, a new and reworded request may be submitted by a different individual.



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    Thank you for posting the audio. It wasof great educational value.

    It is much easier to understand the process.At least, adeclaratory ruling will be made. It also appears to me they will use the opportunity to set straight the application process once and for all. Looks like 3 letters of recommendation will be gone (As it is not required currently)They also want to have wording for having a means to ask for additional material if some sort of issue comes up during the applicants investigation of eligibility done by the local authority.

    They use an example of someone with some sort of mental health issuerevealed during the audio recording.Supposedly, from what I can gather, this was learned from an interview during the application process. Is a face to face interview required as a part of the application process?From the audio it seems the three letters of recommendation is obviously not a requirement, but onethat local authorities still implement on their own. I don't know about a verbal interview. Is that a requirement? I wouldn't think so because they issue out of state permits and don't ask every person applying tocome to CT for an interview.

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    This is my best guess.

    In person interviews may be requested by shouldn't be mandatory.

    I would have no problem with an in person interview especially if they were going to take my fingerprints. But the color of your skin or the way you look or dress should not be of any concern.

    You're right about out of state permit applications also.

    The laws and applications clearly establish what is currently required together with additional documentation such as verification of legal status in the United States and DD-214s to verify honorable seperation from the military etc.

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    Just reading over the 16 questions now in the hands of our government officials. I am somewhat curious of the 14th question, so I wanted to read it again. I had been eagerly awaiting an official answer to this question in particular.

    After having read it again, I am no longer eager to hear the official answer.



    QUESTION 14[/b]: Is carrying a holstered or properly secured, (not in the hand), openly exposed firearm while in possession of a valid permit to do so an element of any Connecticut Breach of Peace or Disorderly Conduct statutes?


    I know whichever agency answers this question is not wanting to do so. With that in mind, I have a good feeling the answer will come back "Possibly" or "they can't answer the question as it is worded (not enough information given.)"

    Because of the way this is worded, I fearthey are going to state it depends on what the person is doing at the time. They have a huge hole they can run through on this one.



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    If they don't answer, it can be presented to the Court, and if the person making the request does not agree with the answer it may be presented to the court.

    It's more than likely going to end up in court.

    Common sensetell me that if you walk into a convience store with a pistol in your hand you'll get arrested.

    Common sense tells me that if you walk into a convience store with a holstered weapon wearing a ski mask that covers your face you'll get arrested.

    In both cases you are carrying with a valid permit but can expected to get arrested.




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    QUESTION 14[/b]: Is carrying a holstered or properly secured, (not in the hand), openly exposed firearm while in possession of a valid permit to do so an element of any Connecticut Breach of Peace or Disorderly Conduct statutes?


    That ishow it reads.Basically, Can one be charged with breach of peace while carrying a holstered or properly secured, openly exposed firearm while in possession of a valid permit to do so.

    I can't help but think "an element" = a part of. Which means- possibly.There could also be a complaint of alarm along with any of the other 6 qualifiers.

    I think theanswer hoped to get is in regards to- is it alone enough to be charged with breach of peace with a complaint of alarm.

    I really hope the questions are answered in respect to the obvious topics they are trying to clarify. I just worry too much about the game of it all. Somehow I get the feeling you enjoy beating them at the game though!

    I have just been informed by one of our esteemed law enforcement officials, simplycarrying an exposed firearm is "threatening behavior" if there is a complaint called, thus qualifying for breach of peace. Period. Somehow his exposed firearm is not threatening behavior though.

    Somehow a hunter carrying a firearm on the side of route 15 is not threatening behavior though.But myself, standing next to said hunter with a handgun in my holster is threatening behavior?





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    Off duty police officers in civilian attire can create just as much alarm as a private citizen.

    But we all know that any responding on duty officers wouldn't considered it to be a breach of peace or disorderly conduct situation.

    It's all going to get worked out regardless of the time it takes.





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    I have just been informed by one of our esteemed law enforcement officials, simplycarrying an exposed firearm is "threatening behavior" if there is a complaint called, thus qualifying for breach of peace. Period. Somehow his exposed firearm is not threatening behavior though.
    Sorry but that is BS! Threatening behavior while putting gas in your car or shopping for groceries...Lets see how threatening a lawyer will be with that crap!!
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Lenny Benedetto wrote:

    I have just been informed by one of our esteemed law enforcement officials, simplycarrying an exposed firearm is "threatening behavior" if there is a complaint called, thus qualifying for breach of peace. Period. Somehow his exposed firearm is not threatening behavior though.
    Sorry but that is BS! Threatening behavior while putting gas in your car or shopping for groceries...Lets see how threatening a lawyer will be with that crap!!
    Threaten their livelihood? threaten their promotional opportunities?

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    In CT, is a carry permit required for open carry?
    States dont have rights. People do.

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    Yes

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    mrjam2jab wrote:
    In CT, is a carry permit required for open carry?*
    A Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers is required to carry off your own property or to transport a handgun ANYWHERE but to a repair facility. And then it must be cased. You cannot transport a handgun to a shooting range and shoot it without said permit.

    Because of these restrictions, the number of permit holders (last estimated at about 165,000, I think) is a little misleading, in that a significant portion probably do not carry as a matter of course, but simply have the permit to carry while hunting or to transport to a shooting range.

    Ed can probably provide a better count of the numbers.

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    Lon wrote:
    mrjam2jab wrote:
    In CT, is a carry permit required for open carry?
    A Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers is required to carry off your own property or to transport a handgun ANYWHERE but to a repair facility. And then it must be cased. You cannot transport a handgun to a shooting range and shoot it without said permit.

    Because of these restrictions, the number of permit holders (last estimated at about 165,000, I think) is a little misleading, in that a significant portion probably do not carry as a matter of course, but simply have the permit to carry while hunting or to transport to a shooting range.

    Ed can probably provide a better count of the numbers.
    Although the criminals don't possess carry permits, and their equipment for the most part seems to work just as well without it.

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    GoldCoaster wrote:
    Lon wrote:
    mrjam2jab wrote:
    In CT, is a carry permit required for open carry?*
    A Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers is required to carry off your own property or to transport a handgun ANYWHERE but to a repair facility. And then it must be cased. You cannot transport a handgun to a shooting range and shoot it without said permit.

    Because of these restrictions, the number of permit holders (last estimated at about 165,000, I think) is a little misleading, in that a significant portion probably do not carry as a matter of course, but simply have the permit to carry while hunting or to transport to a shooting range.

    Ed can probably provide a better count of the numbers.
    Although the criminals don't possess carry permits, and their equipment for the most part seems to work just as well without it.
    But that holds true in every state, not just here

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    Letters have gone out to those who requested a declaratory ruling on what must be submitted with an applicaiton for a Permit to Carry.

    The Board of Firearms will discuss the matter at their January 14, 2009 meeting.



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    Edward Peruta wrote:
    Letters have gone out to those who requested a declaratory ruling on what must be submitted with an applicaiton for a Permit to Carry.

    The Board of Firearms will discuss the matter at their January 14, 2009 meeting.
    Presume that should be 2010.

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