Plymouth, PA Cops Assault Me, Terrorize My Toddler Son Over Open Carry

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Remember the Ron Paul rep detained by the feds at the airport? The feds really showed their backside when he asked that question repeatedly.

My thoughts were that the guy sounded like a moron asking legal advice from the cops. Just cut to the chase and say "I'm not talking to you, I want a lawyer" or just go Nancy Reagan on them and say no. You lose style points, IMHO, that's all and it may open up a defense of a consensual encounter, but it is a decent "non-answer"

Illustrating disingenuous behavior doesn't get you many points in court.

Can I talk to you? No

Can we step over here? no

Can I see some ID? No


Besides, if they say "yes", a person can always still decline to answer the question.

I think they would then go down the "you have to tell me that or you are breaking the law..." route. We all know of people who are have been accused of violating non-existent laws...cops who cite hilbel when there are no stop and identify statues and such.

how do you get your voice recorder out when the cop has come up behind you and is already nervous about where you put your hands and yours is in a pocket?

Have it running when you leave the house. Seriously

if I say outright no the cop has a basis for claiming I was not co-operating.

First of all, you are looking at this the wrong way. You have no obligation to co-operate with a cop or anyone really, short of a judge giving you a court order. i absolutely can't stand that phrase "cooperating with the police" that is code for waiving your constitutional rights, so say what you really mean. They wouldn't have a basis for claiming that you waived your constitutional rights.

Get your mind right and realize that the cops work for YOU. They do what YOU say. YOU are the boss, not them. YOU pay their salaries. Act like it.

Second, non-Cooperation is not illegal. So what if you didn't what's he going to do? Charge you with Felonious non-cooperation? You speak of non-cooperation as if it is a bad thing, why? The cops sole purpose in life is to take your freedom and money. Why would you cooperate with that? Some people lack the self-preservation instinct, and I am not one of them.

This way I cleanly render his question moot without refusing to cooperate.

F' that. My mom told me not to talk to strangers. You shouldn't either.

OR if Pennsylvania has a "stop and ID" statute)

PA doesn't have that. RAS/PC should be identified at the onset (am I being detained? why? Do you suspect me of a crime?)

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If you are on short walk from your house, don;t carry any ID or wallet - sterile carry.

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Can anyone suggest what to request, what wording to be used on a PA Right-to-Know request form? I plan to request the 911 call, reports, any dash-cam video but if I don't use the right words I worry they will take the easy way out and not give me the info.

Can anyone help me out with the right govt/police vocabulary words for this?

Thanks.

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georgedonnelly wrote:

Can anyone suggest what to request, what wording to be used on a PA Right-to-Know request form? I plan to request the 911 call, reports, any dash-cam video but if I don't use the right words I worry they will take the easy way out and not give me the info.

Can anyone help me out with the right govt/police vocabulary words for this?

Thanks.

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This is a request for records pursuant to the PA Right-to-Know law. (Re-word as appropriate to include the actual statute name and statute number I am requesting records related toa police encounter with anarmed citizen on (date) at (time) at (location). I am requesting:

• The 911 call recording to which the officers responded.
• Any radio traffic recordings related to the encounter.
• Dash-cam video related to the encounter.
• Policecar or officer audio related to the encounter.
• Field contact notes or reports about the encounter written by the officers.
• Text communicationsto or from the police car related to the encounter.
• (If you want to really dig): E-mails related to the encounter originated by either officer within 24 hours of the encounter.

(Somebody else may be able to help you out with reminding the police about any time limits for releasing the records. If you have to pay for the request, you will want to put a cost limit over which they must first contact you for your express approval.)

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It just seems to me that it is getting a little old listening to people crying about being ASSAULTED (look up the definition) by some idiot under color of law (see also official oppression). For cripes sake, why are you carrying in the first place- isn't it to protect yourself against such lawlessness? DUH, If some known burglar/robber/rapist, etc. approached you and politely asked you to produce your wallet and all identifying papers, etc. HOW WOULD YOU REACT?

FLAME ON!!!!!:cuss:

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So.................... you're saying we should start shooting cops? I'm not sure but I think that might yield a few negative reprecussions but of course this is just my opinion.

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It just seems to me that it is getting a little old listening to people crying about being ASSAULTED (look up the definition) by some idiot under color of law (see also official oppression).



The only people crying about being assaulted are the ones that aren't willing to sue to make it right.

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Thos.Jefferson wrote:

So.................... you're saying we should start shooting cops? I'm not sure but I think that might yield a few negative reprecussions but of course this is just my opinion.

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Mine, too. Much better to shoot them with formal complaints and lawsuits and bad press.

You don't risk becoming a fugitive--possibly from capital murder charges.

And you don't gotta clean your gun afterward.

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Just a FYI PA allows for a private criminal complaint...official oppression and such.

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Was does RAS mean? I can guess that PC means Probable Cause but for the life of me can't figure out RAS.

Thanks!

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reasonable suspicion

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reasonable articulable suspicion, ie that there is some reasonable suspicion of crime or soon-to-be crime and the cop can actual name/explain it. That's how I understand it.

btw I got the police report and they denied my right to know report. They're available on my website.

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Mike wrote:

If you are on short walk from your house, don;t carry any ID or wallet - sterile carry.

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i've been doing this for a little while now, or, when i'm driving, i'll leave my LTCF and driver's ID in my van's glovebox.

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George,

Keep digging. There should be police reports from all the officers present.



They are giving you the run around. An attorney would be able to access these documents through discovery.

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Did this thread die for lack of oxygen?

Yata hey

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Mike wrote:

If you are on short walk from your house, don;t carry any ID or wallet - sterile carry.

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Exactly.

I never carry ID on my person. My DL stays in my vehicle. If an LEO looks in my wallet, the most he will find is a $20 bill.

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suntzu wrote:

georgedonnelly wrote: The recorder is easy--when you start to put your gun on and start out the door, regardless of where you are going--turn on the recorder before you step out the door, and keep it with you-and keep it on. Most good recorders will last several days on batteries--at least mine does. When you get in for the evening if nothing has happened--simply erase the days recording and start over the next time you go out.


A good audio recorder is absolutely essential--don't carry your gun without one--the recorder will be invaluable for you in my opinion.

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+1 24/7 recording, but in home also. If you have a home invasion it can't hurt
to get it on tape.

But do not bring it with you to file the complaint.
Let them put their version in writing first, then produce the recording and have
them explain why the statements doesn't fit the recording. Otherwise you will
let them fit the statement to the recording.
Plus if it is always on it also disputes the claim of you were causing a scene
as they pulled up before you turned it on.

Of course if the judge doesn't have a good sense of humor and he hears you
asking them to please use some lubrication while you are bent over the squad
car hood it can go either way.:lol:

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Although PA is a "two party consent" state for the recording of telephone conversations, there is a special exception in the law for in-person conversations that occur in public, when the speakers do not have an "expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation."

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/pennsylvania/pennsylvania-recording-law

This is the same in almost EVERY state. Cops cannot demand you stop recording or videotaping them, unless doing so is actively interfering with them maintaining public safety or interferes with them performing their duties under the law.

If you see a cop doing something that is in violation of the law, you do NOT have to stop taping even if they ask you, because their illegal actions are not covered under "performing their duties under the law"...

At the very least, EVERY OCer should have a digital voice recorder, or a voice memo app on their phone, and be ready to engage it at ALL times...