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Required to Notify?

user

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Don't assume that a cop is stupid or ignorant because he gives you misinformation. A lot of cops see that as part of their job. The technical legal term for that kind of behavior is, "dust in the eyes." The theory is that if you believe the hogwash they tell you, or at least will be uncertain about it, it may modify your behavior. And there are some among the law enforcement community who see themselves as responsible not only for detecting crimes and apprehending criminals, but social control, generally.

Most of the ones I've encountered who engage in that kind of behavior don't believe me when I tell them that they can be held civilly liable for legal malpractice. But you don't have to be a lawyer to be liable for malpractice if you lie to someone about his legal rights and he acts on that misinformation to his detriment. And cops don't enjoy civil immunity.

With respect to firearms, there are also those in the law enforcement community who feel that everyone who is not in his own home and lawfully minding his own business is a potential "target of investigation". So they regard an armed citizen as a potential threat to themselves, and they want to minimize that threat as much as possible. They do not make a distinction in their minds between law abiding, socially responsible, armed citizens and criminals, and they're afraid.
 

user

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Repeater wrote:
user wrote: 
And cops don't enjoy civil immunity.
Be careful. LEOs do enjoy Qualified Immunity.

Which, in the Fourth Circuit, is -- for all practical purposes -- civil immunity.

You have a good point. Though acting as an attorney is not normally within the scope of their duties.
 

ProShooter

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user wrote:
With respect to firearms, there are also those in the law enforcement community who feel that everyone who is not in his own home and lawfully minding his own business is a potential "target of investigation". So they regard an armed citizen as a potential threat to themselves, and they want to minimize that threat as much as possible. They do not make a distinction in their minds between law abiding, socially responsible, armed citizens and criminals, and they're afraid.

That's a very broad brush you paint with, Counselor.

In my 12 years in LE, in both NJ and Va, I never experienced such a feeling from an officer.
 

skidmark

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ProShooter wrote:
user wrote:
With respect to firearms, there are also those in the law enforcement community who feel that everyone who is not in his own home and lawfully minding his own business is a potential "target of investigation". So they regard an armed citizen as a potential threat to themselves, and they want to minimize that threat as much as possible. They do not make a distinction in their minds between law abiding, socially responsible, armed citizens and criminals, and they're afraid.

That's a very broad brush you paint with, Counselor.

In my 12 years in LE, in both NJ and Va, I never experienced such a feeling from an officer.


I agree - you have never experienced it. But that does not make it not exist. Bet you never experienced a pregnancy either! :lol: Wanna tell the wife it's just in her mind?:uhoh:

stay safe.

skidmark
 

Citizen

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user wrote:
SNIP [Police]do not make a distinction in their minds between law abiding, socially responsible, armed citizens and criminals...
+1

I have experienced this first-hand three times in the last three years.
 

user

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Thankfully, it's not the normal thing, at least not around here. Tt tends to be localized in certain jurisdictions, so I figure it must be the result of management and employee selection processes. One hears of certain towns, for example, where people carrying guns are routinely given a hard time for no good reason, even where there's been litigation on the subject and they know perfectly well that what they're doing is incorrect.

I had the idea that the "pro-crime" states, like Maryland and Massachussetts were sort of like that throughout the states; sort of an "us v. them" siege mentality. The report of NJ experience to the contrary comes as a surprise to me, I have to admit.
 

TexasNative

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ProShooter wrote:
user wrote:
... there are also those in the law enforcement community ...
That's a very broad brush you paint with, Counselor.
I disagree, Jim. User didn't say "all," or "most" or even "many." I think you read something into his statement that he didn't say.

~ Boyd
 

Citizen

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user wrote:
SNIP...there are also those in the law enforcement community who feel that everyone who is not in his own home and lawfully minding his own business is a potential "target of investigation".

+1

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091008/ap_on_re_us/us_stop_and_frisk

http://www.alternet.org/story/141866/the_epidemic_of_pot_arrests_in_new_york_city/?page=1#comments

And,Arrest-proof Yourself by Dale Carson, former Florida cop, thenFBI Agent. Available at Barnes & Noble. I'll have to remember tofind my copyand post a fewrevealingexcerpts about the mentality of police.
 

hunter45

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hunter45 wrote:
My criminal justice teacher told us last week that you must notify in Virginia (he is a former Hampton PD officer). I didn't feel like challenging him because we were already in an argument about OC earlier in that class period. He said someone walking down the street carrying a gun was enough reasonable suspicion to detain someone. And then he said OC is not legal in all parts of Virginia. :banghead:

So tonight in class he handed me 59 pages that he printed off his computer on open carry. I'm not sure if this is supposed to prove his point or not, lol. He just handed it to me as I was leaving class. He made some comment about not being able to open carry in cities in Virginia that had a population over a certain number. I just thanked him for the info and left as I had somewhere else I had to be.
 

Citizen

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hunter45 wrote:
hunter45 wrote:
My criminal justice teacher told us last week that you must notify in Virginia (he is a former Hampton PD officer). I didn't feel like challenging him because we were already in an argument about OC earlier in that class period. He said someone walking down the street carrying a gun was enough reasonable suspicion to detain someone. And then he said OC is not legal in all parts of Virginia. :banghead:
So tonight in class he handed me 59 pages that he printed off his computer on open carry. I'm not sure if this is supposed to prove his point or not, lol. He just handed it to me as I was leaving class. He made some comment about not being able to open carry in cities in Virginia that had a population over a certain number. I just thanked him for the info and left as I had somewhere else I had to be.
Did you ever set him straight on Florida vs JL and mere possession of a handgun where lawful not being RAS?
 

MSC 45ACP

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skidmark wrote:
I agree - you have never experienced it. But that does not make it not exist. Bet you never experienced a pregnancy either! :lol:
Wanna tell the wife it's just in her mind?
:uhoh:

stay safe.

skidmark

THAT would be hazardous to one's health, expecially if it is during the later stages of pregnancy when they feel "ugly", "fat", "bloated", etc. Thou Shalt NEVER agree with them when they say that, or you better expect to be sharing the dog's living arrangements in his modest home in the yard with one entrance and exit...:shock:

I was lucky, my infraction was minor in comparison. I only had to sleep on the couch for a few days after not responding to her "I'm so fat" comment fast enough.

I'm glad we didn't have ready access to our weapons when that happened. good thing I couldn't OCeither (lived in NYC).

I do NOT miss the days of getting up at 0300 to go get cucumbers and ranch dressing because that was what Her Majesty required at that time. I did NOT spontaneously ignite after she didn't want it when I returned home from that shopping trip, either.
 

Dutch Uncle

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hunter45 wrote:
hunter45 wrote:

So tonight in class he handed me 59 pages that he printed off his computer on open carry. I'm not sure if this is supposed to prove his point or not, lol. He just handed it to me as I was leaving class. He made some comment about not being able to open carry in cities in Virginia that had a population over a certain number. I just thanked him for the info and left as I had somewhere else I had to be.
Lord have mercy, I can't believe this old chestnut is still being passed around. I'm almost sure what the teacher was referring to is an old ordinance that makes it illegal to carry a "firearm" in a city over 40,00 or something like that. If so, ask him to CAREFULLY read the next paragraph in the law. It states that for the purposes of that law, a firearm was a centerfire weapon fitted with a magazine that carries more than 20 rounds. (i.e. an "assault weapon") So many cops have read that first paragraph out of context, I'm surprised the Gen. Assembly hasn't rephrased that damn law. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with OC or CC of a pistol anywhere in VA!
 

Repeater

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Dutch Uncle wrote:
hunter45 wrote:
hunter45 wrote:

So tonight in class he handed me 59 pages that he printed off his computer on open carry. I'm not sure if this is supposed to prove his point or not, lol. He just handed it to me as I was leaving class. He made some comment about not being able to open carry in cities in Virginia that had a population over a certain number. I just thanked him for the info and left as I had somewhere else I had to be.
Lord have mercy, I can't believe this old chestnut is still being passed around. I'm almost sure what the teacher was referring to is an old ordinance that makes it illegal to carry a "firearm" in a city over 40,00 or something like that. If so, ask him to CAREFULLY read the next paragraph in the law. It states that for the purposes of that law, a firearm was a centerfire weapon fitted with a magazine that carries more than 20 rounds. (i.e. an "assault weapon") So many cops have read that first paragraph out of context, I'm surprised the Gen. Assembly hasn't rephrased that damn law. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with OC or CC of a pistol anywhere in VA!
Say Uncle, I gave 'chestnut' the link you're thinking about.

And that 'damn law' was rephrased. See here.

So, how come we know more than that cretin teacher?
 

Citizen

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Repeater wrote:
SNIP So, how come we know more than that cretin teacher?
Maybe cause the "teacher" is more interested in social engineering--dissuading the student from OC--that just getting the facts straight for the student?
 

buster81

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NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
I was under the impression, as stated above, the officer will know you have a CHP and you have to present it with your license in a traffic stop, or if you are OC'ing you should have it on the seat or somewhere near you?

Because technically at your right hip, even at OC, its not in common observation and the officer could pull a bonehead move from there.

IANAL, and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do not think you are requried to present your CHP if you are asked only for your license during a traffic stop.

"The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer."

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm
 

darthmord

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
skidmark wrote:
I agree - you have never experienced it. But that does not make it not exist. Bet you never experienced a pregnancy either! :lol:
Wanna tell the wife it's just in her mind?
:uhoh:

stay safe.

skidmark

THAT would be hazardous to one's health, expecially if it is during the later stages of pregnancy when they feel "ugly", "fat", "bloated", etc. Thou Shalt NEVER agree with them when they say that, or you better expect to be sharing the dog's living arrangements in his modest home in the yard with one entrance and exit...:shock:

I was lucky, my infraction was minor in comparison. I only had to sleep on the couch for a few days after not responding to her "I'm so fat" comment fast enough.

I'm glad we didn't have ready access to our weapons when that happened. good thing I couldn't OCeither (lived in NYC).

I do NOT miss the days of getting up at 0300 to go get cucumbers and ranch dressing because that was what Her Majesty required at that time. I did NOT spontaneously ignite after she didn't want it when I returned home from that shopping trip, either.

My wife & I had an understanding... I would happily cater to her odd desires like that while awake. If she had them after I fell asleep, she was on her own. She could either get the food craving fix herself or wait until I was awake the following morning.

She didn't believe me. I growled at her the night she woke me up. Told her "If you want it that bad, get it yourself". Then rolled back over and went back to sleep.

Amazingly, I woke up the following morning. Still married to her after 14 years too.
 

darthmord

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buster81 wrote:
NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
I was under the impression, as stated above, the officer will know you have a CHP and you have to present it with your license in a traffic stop, or if you are OC'ing you should have it on the seat or somewhere near you?

Because technically at your right hip, even at OC, its not in common observation and the officer could pull a bonehead move from there.

IANAL, and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do not think you are requried to present your CHP if you are asked only for your license during a traffic stop.

"The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer."

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm
I see nothing there that states I have to display my CHP upon demand if I'm only OCing. There is such a thing as sterile carry.
 

buster81

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darthmord wrote:
buster81 wrote:
NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
I was under the impression, as stated above, the officer will know you have a CHP and you have to present it with your license in a traffic stop, or if you are OC'ing you should have it on the seat or somewhere near you?

Because technically at your right hip, even at OC, its not in common observation and the officer could pull a bonehead move from there.

IANAL, and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do not think you are requried to present your CHP if you are asked only for your license during a traffic stop.

"The person issued a permit or in possession of a de facto permit must have the permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and must display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department upon demand by a law enforcement officer."

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm
I see nothing there that states I have to display my CHP upon demand if I'm only OCing. There is such a thing as sterile carry.
I agree. I was just pointing out that you do not need to hand over your CHP along with your drivers license, if you are asked for your drivers license during a traffic stop. I was assuming Nightmare was referring to CC in his statement.
 
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