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Thread: Please review

  1. #1
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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

    see rule 6.



    What if the cops judged us by the actions of a few of us?

  2. #2
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    cheese wrote:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

    see rule 6.



    What if the cops judged us by the actions of a few of us?
    Cheese,

    What if we refused to call a spade a spade when one of our own did something stupid or criminal? If a regular Joe who either OCs, CCCs, or CCs has an ND--especially in public--and puts a bullet into a toilet, a chair, or even worse a person, you can rest assured I am NOT going to defend the person.

    I have NOT seen anything close to LEO bashing on this list in recent months.

    But when a couple of guys shoot an innocent man in the back inside his own home, then conspire on how to cover up their crimes, those guys are criminals and they need to be called such. That they happen to be cops does NOT excuse them from criticism for their conduct. Indeed, it means they have violated a high and sacred public trust.

    And ANYONE who claims to be an honest, honorable, and hard working cop--or supporter thereof--should be among the FIRST to demand that such criminals be properly and fully punished so as not to tarnish the reputation of good cops. Attempting to shut down honest criticism of criminal conduct does just the opposite and tends to make it look like some cops will defend their own no matter how egregious the conduct might be. THAT perception will not engender trust for nor respect of our peace officers.

    Stop being so thin skinned. I'm sure your daddy and other relatives can defend themselves from unjust criticism. And if they are half the peace officers you claim they are, I have a hard time believing they would not also condemn such overt criminal conduct from within their ranks.

    Even if one were to attempt to suggest that the heat and danger of the moment lead to a tragic mistake in shooting the home owner, there is NO excuse for the subsequent cover up. MEN, honorable, honest REAL MEN stand up and take responsibility for their conduct, including their mistakes. A cop who works to cover up a mistake is a coward and a criminal and is unfit to wear the badge or uniform.

    Ask your daddy if he doesn't agree.

    Charles


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  3. #3
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    It is clear that you think you have all the information.

    I agree that this is a tragic event and nothing can be done to make it right.

    However many times information is not shared with the public.

    The Media may slant a story for ratings. (I have seen that before)

    As for the Officer and his conduct and the alleged cover up I can only speculate. Many times the whole investigation is not done for months.


    I catch myself stirring the pot onoccasion regarding events that I am passionate about. But I also am big enough to take reasonable criticism and try to look at others opinions.

    Perhaps you have not seen LEO bashing. Maybe you need to look at comments from a different angle on occasion.

    Often times the truth lies in the middle of multiple opinions and reports.

    Thank you for your feedback.

    cheese.



  4. #4
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    cheese wrote:
    It is clear that you think you have all the information.

    Not at all. But neither do you.

    Indeed, we almost never have all the information regarding the stories on which we comment. That does not preclude us from offering comments based on the information we do have. If and when more or better information is made known, we sometimes end up having to change our views. That doesn't prevent us from offering comments and forming opinions based on the information available at the time.

    And I don't see why police officers involved in a shooting should be treated especially different than anyone else involved in a shooting in this regard. I personally tend to give cops the benefit of the doubt when they end up shooting someone with a long criminal record or obviously involved in a crime. I even try to be understanding of the particulars of their job when an innocent person gets shot by mistake. As a private citizen I have the option to run away from a crime in progress. We expect cops to go running in.

    But the details of this case--to the extent we have them currently--stretch even my ability to give much benefit of the doubt here in cyberworld. As a member of a jury or review board, I would, of course, have to set a different standard. But I'm not on a jury nor a review board over this case so I get to speculate a bit, and form opinions based on the data available. And from what has been presented, no honest person can come to any conclusion other than some serious problems on the part of the cops who shot an innocent man in the back and then conspired to cover it up.

    Anyone here who does anything more to defend the cops in this case other than simply refuse to form an opinion until more details are available is showing a pro-cop bias at least as strong as some of the anti-cop biases that lead to what little bashing we do see here.

    Here in Utah, police officers are, man for man, every bit as likely to lose their POST certification as are private citizens likely to have their firearm carry permits revoked. And permits to carry are revoked for much lower offenses than will get a POST certification revoked. For example, barring injuries, it generally takes three DUIs to revoke POST. A carry permit is revoked for the first alcohol related offense, including simple public intoxication.

    Now, in both cases--cops and firearm carry permit holders--the revocation rate is about 0.2% (2 out of every 1,000). That is so low as to prove to me that the vast majority are doing the right thing. But it is also proof that no group is free of a few, rare, bad apples.

    And whether the group is cops or firearm carry permit holders, when a bad apple surfaces, the honest and good members of the group need to be sure the bad apple is properly punished. They should not be covering for him.

    Charles


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  5. #5
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    Double post removed.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  6. #6
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    Don't waste your time or words on Cheese there Charles. He is a troll operating under the guise that he is genuinely concerned or curious about the issues he brings up and discusses here. It is obvious what his true motives are and what he is trying to do. I fed him a few skittles and some reeces pieces, but this troll is getting no more food from me.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

  7. #7
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    cheese wrote:
    Many times the whole investigation is not done for months.
    I'm coming in on the tail end of this, but if we're talking about the Arambula shooting in Phoenix, AZ, the "investigation" (at least so far as the Phoenix Use of Force Board's cursory rubber-stamping qualifies as such) has been completed.

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...mbula0925.htmlhas the details.

    In a sad commentary on the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association's opinion of what constitutes a tragedy, Officer Jerry Gannon said, "If Brian would have known there was a homeowner in there, he probably would have hesitated, but if he had hesitated, and it was the (suspect), the outcome could have been tragic" (emphasis added). "Could have been"? Excuse me, but if this wasn't a tragedy, whatwould you call it? Apparently the Use of Force Board's answer is, 'just following procedure.'



  8. #8
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    The sad thing is, If it were any one of us, we would be in jail with a very high bail amount...we would have been arrested that night.

    We (the people) would not have been able tojustify the use of deadly force in this instance...NO WAY!

    1) The cop did not/could notsee the gun before he shot (although he 'changed his story' later saying he did)

    2) He shot the man in the back (first) and then continued to shoot 5 more rounds,at least 2 rounds fired when he was down on the ground.

    3) Yes this was a mistake...How many years do you think you or I would get for making this same mistake???

    Yes I know all about not blasting LEOs on this forum, but the fact remains there is a double standard and that is just plain wrong.

  9. #9
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    perhaps.

    another example of a double standard is thebullshit that loveshisxd displays in his posts.

    wont speak on the merits but is fast to call names.

    YA YA this and that your a troll wah wha what a duschebag.

  10. #10
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    It's *********, not duschebag :P



  11. #11
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    GeneticsDave wrote:
    It's *********, not duschebag :P
    just IMAGINING this in use makes me wonder why im straight.

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