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Thread: General public cant carry condition 1?

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    Last night I went to Regal Cinemas in Manassas with my sister and girlfriend. I stopped over at borders to get a cup of iced tea and saw the ARMED cinema guard getting some coffee. I approached him and asked him if I was open or concealed carry if that would be in some hot water with regal being there are NO signs what so ever on any windows, doors, or ticket offices.

    This was so interesting... He said that someone came in the other night OC and he mentioned it to the manager. The manager retorted with "I dunno why he would need that" and just walked away. So evidently Regal Cinemas, at least in Manassas is OC acceptable. I say that because I would imagine if we did some sort of gathering they would get a little nervous about that.

    Now, later in the conversation he mentioned he carries a 9mm rather than his 45ACP at work. So I asked him, hes a Mason Police officer. And somehow the conversation moved to carrying condition 1. He said that the public is not allowed to carry condition 1. Claimed that only police can carry with a round chambered.

    I was very confused by the situation because I saw nothing in the CHP training, nor anywhere on here where we cant carry ready to defend ourselves. I highly doubt a BG would be willing to wait for a moment while he is pointing a gun or other weapon at our bodies somewhere he is going to do serious bodily harm while we rack our slide.

    Can anyone weigh in on this? My assumption would be this was an older code that has since been changed with the increased use of open and concealed carry. I typically dont carry with a round in the chamber because Im close to home and in no imminent danger that I wouldnt be able to counter or notice quickly. However when Im in Arlington I carry condition 1, with police seeing me and not saying a word.
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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Hog wash!!!
    Next time ask the person to cite the code.

    The theater is posted but it is hard to see, it isn't on the doors but the glass entrance area.

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    He is uninformed and has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. If it is legal for you to possess and carry a handgun then you can carry it in any condition you please. The law doesn't make any stipulations as to conditions of carry. That's just something the gun guys like to argue back and forth about which is better and why.

    If you go back and happen to see him again you should attempt to educate him. If he is still persistent, ask for the code section that specifically says no condition 1 for Joe Public.

    The only thing that I think could come close to causing him this confusion would be this:
    § 18.2-287.4.
    Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

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    Agent19 wrote:
    Hog wash!!!
    Next time ask the person to cite the code.

    The theater is posted but it is hard to see, it isn't on the doors but the glass entrance area.
    He said he couldnt cite the code from memory, but I think he noticed a little bit of apprehension on my face.

    And I looked all over for the sign, I couldnt find one anywhere!

    But he said with someone carrying he would have no reason to ask them to leave. His only qualm would have been its "dangerous" with so many people and kids who like to touch and "use the little fingers and could get their finger on the trigger."

    In all honesty, I didnt really like his attitude towards OC, he just made it seem like we are very irresponsible. But we know the truth there.
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    Agent19 wrote:
    Hog wash!!!
    Next time ask the person to cite the code.

    The theater is posted but it is hard to see, it isn't on the doors but the glass entrance area.
    Agent 19 is a lot more polite than I.

    My comment would be ********!

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    +1 I also say Bull$heet! As shown in the code above the guard was wrong.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Maybe he saw an article about California Open Carry.

    And nobody's getting a finger on the trigger when it's properly holstered.

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    The only problem I see going here is that people continue to ask permission!!! This whole garbage idea of asking permission has got to stop.
    It really reminds me of the lines 'Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies' and 'It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission'


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    Toad wrote:
    The only problem I see going here is that people continue to ask permission!!! This whole garbage idea of asking permission has got to stop.
    It really reminds me of the lines 'Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies' and 'It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission'
    I only ask out of respect and not ruining a night with my girlfriend. I understand your thoughts on this and I completely respect, but it is something that has always been expected of me. And it is something I dont feel comfortable about doing.
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    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    Last night I went to Regal Cinemas in Manassas with my sister and girlfriend. I stopped over at borders to get a cup of iced tea and saw the ARMED cinema guard getting some coffee. I approached him and asked him if I was open or concealed carry if that would be in some hot water with regal being there are NO signs what so ever on any windows, doors, or ticket offices.

    PLEASE! Do not ask a business about not having "NO GUN" signs!

    It's the fastest way to find a "NO GUN" sign the next time you visit that establishment!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    Last night I went to Regal Cinemas in Manassas with my sister and girlfriend. I stopped over at borders to get a cup of iced tea and saw the ARMED cinema guard getting some coffee. I approached him and asked him if I was open or concealed carry if that would be in some hot water with regal being there are NO signs what so ever on any windows, doors, or ticket offices.

    PLEASE! Do not ask a business about not having "NO GUN" signs!

    It's the fastest way to find a "NO GUN" sign the next time you visit that establishment!
    +1.

    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...

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    nova wrote:
    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...
    I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.
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    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...
    I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.
    I see it as necessary because GMU PD not only has jurisdiction on GMU's campus but also on all adjoining roads. They're commonly seen in the shopping center across the street, and all through the City of Fairfax, both places I regularly open carry. It is a bad thing when a sworn law enforcement officer preaches things as law when they are in fact not.

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    nova wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...
    I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.
    I see it as necessary because GMU PD not only has jurisdiction on GMU's campus but also on all adjoining roads. They're commonly seen in the shopping center across the street, and all through the City of Fairfax, both places I regularly open carry. It is a bad thing when a sworn law enforcement officer preaches things as law when they are in fact not.
    I remember looking at his name, but I cant remember it fully from memory. E. Gebbxxx something I think. I thought he was way off too, but hey, GMU officers uneducated? That cant possibly be true! I mean anyone pulled over after dark near or on campus MUST be drunk?

    I wasnt surprised when he said it, mostly because I think CHP training would suggest otherwise. It would defeat the purpose of having a gun if you had to rack it, giving the BG that much more of an advantage.
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    Not meaning to offend anyone, but it's pretty silly to carry a gun without a round chambered. "I'm almost ready to defend myself, let me just do this one little thing first, okay?"

    This reminds me of the often-reported conversation when someone asked an open-carrier, "Isn't that dangerous?" The answer: "It damn well better be! I wouldn't be carrying it otherwise."

    ~ Boyd

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    nova wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...
    I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.
    I see it as necessary because GMU PD not only has jurisdiction on GMU's campus but also on all adjoining roads. They're commonly seen in the shopping center across the street, and all through the City of Fairfax, both places I regularly open carry. It is a bad thing when a sworn law enforcement officer preaches things as law when they are in fact not.
    BUT......the officer in question was not serving in his capacity (apparently from the story) as a GMU police officer, but rather as a private security guard for the theater. Was he in a GMU uniform? Your suggestion that "they (GMU Police)are uneducated about Virginia law" is a bit over the top. Believe me when I say that I worked with ALOT of deputies that were not "gun people" and couldnt even tell you what Condition 1 was. Maybe the officer didnt really know and was embarassed by the question since he didnt know the answer, and he got it wrong....stuff happens.

    The OP engaged the officer/guard in a conversation and the officer/guard made a mistake in his reply. He was misinformed. He didnt confront the OP nor did he take any official action which inhibited or restricted the rights of the OP in any way. Gosh, if I called someone's manager everytime a human being made a mistake, I'd be on the phone all damn day.

    "What do you mean that the item is not in stock? I called yesterday and you had 2. I'm sending a letter to your boss to complain!"

    "Waitress, I ordered my eggs scrambled, these are fried. I want to see your manager right now"....

    I have no problem holding people accountable for serious mistakes, but I don't play tattle-tale if someone makes a simple mistake. Shouldn't we have a bit more compassion and understanding for another human being than that?
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...
    I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.
    I see it as necessary because GMU PD not only has jurisdiction on GMU's campus but also on all adjoining roads. They're commonly seen in the shopping center across the street, and all through the City of Fairfax, both places I regularly open carry. It is a bad thing when a sworn law enforcement officer preaches things as law when they are in fact not.
    BUT......the officer in question was not serving in his capacity (apparently from the story) as a GMU police officer, but rather as a private security guard for the theater. Was he in a GMU uniform? Your suggestion that "they (GMU Police)are uneducated about Virginia law" is a bit over the top. Believe me when I say that I worked with ALOT of deputies that were not "gun people" and couldnt even tell you what Condition 1 was. Maybe the officer didnt really know and was embarassed by the question since he didnt know the answer, and he got it wrong....stuff happens.

    The OP engaged the officer/guard in a conversation and the officer/guard made a mistake in his reply. He was misinformed. He didnt confront the OP nor did he take any official action which inhibited or restricted the rights of the OP in any way. Gosh, if I called someone's manager everytime a human being made a mistake, I'd be on the phone all damn day.

    "What do you mean that the item is not in stock? I called yesterday and you had 2. I'm sending a letter to your boss to complain!"

    "Waitress, I ordered my eggs scrambled, these are fried. I want to see your manager right now"....

    I have no problem holding people accountable for serious mistakes, but I don't play tattle-tale if someone makes a simple mistake. Shouldn't we have a bit more compassion and understanding for another human being than that?
    I understand what you're saying but I don't see how it matters in this situation. He's the same person with the same knowledge of the law whether he's on duty as a police officer or working as a private security guard.

    I never said GMU PD is uneducated on gun laws, in fact, I've frequently said the opposite in the OC in NoVA thread. I've OC'd past countless GMU PD officers off campus and none ever gave me a second glance when passing by. They are very professional in fact. But as we've seen countless times before, sure there are a few bad apples in the bunch that don't know or are ignorant of the law. GMU is a small police dept. so there are probably less "bad apples" as a matter of statistics.

    I've been wanting to communicate with the chief just because I'm curious as to what memos or other training regarding people carrying they've received. I know they are aware that it is legal on campus for vehicles passing through as they have a pdf file on their site that recommends notifying the officer if you have a concealed handgun permit and if you have any weapons...notice it recommends, not requires.

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    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    nova wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...
    I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.
    I see it as necessary because GMU PD not only has jurisdiction on GMU's campus but also on all adjoining roads. They're commonly seen in the shopping center across the street, and all through the City of Fairfax, both places I regularly open carry. It is a bad thing when a sworn law enforcement officer preaches things as law when they are in fact not.
    I remember looking at his name, but I cant remember it fully from memory. E. Gebbxxx something I think. I thought he was way off too, but hey, GMU officers uneducated? That cant possibly be true! I mean anyone pulled over after dark near or on campus MUST be drunk?

    I wasnt surprised when he said it, mostly because I think CHP training would suggest otherwise. It would defeat the purpose of having a gun if you had to rack it, giving the BG that much more of an advantage.
    Could his name have been Edward Gannon (listed as MPO at GMU PD)?

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    PLEASE! Do not ask a business about not having "NO GUN" signs!

    It's the fastest way to find a "NO GUN" sign the next time you visit that establishment!
    +1

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    nova wrote:
    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    nova wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...
    I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.
    I see it as necessary because GMU PD not only has jurisdiction on GMU's campus but also on all adjoining roads. They're commonly seen in the shopping center across the street, and all through the City of Fairfax, both places I regularly open carry. It is a bad thing when a sworn law enforcement officer preaches things as law when they are in fact not.
    I remember looking at his name, but I cant remember it fully from memory. E. Gebbxxx something I think. I thought he was way off too, but hey, GMU officers uneducated? That cant possibly be true! I mean anyone pulled over after dark near or on campus MUST be drunk?

    I wasnt surprised when he said it, mostly because I think CHP training would suggest otherwise. It would defeat the purpose of having a gun if you had to rack it, giving the BG that much more of an advantage.
    Could his name have been Edward Gannon (listed as MPO at GMU PD)?
    Possibly. I wanna say there were "b"s in his name... But I cant remember
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    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    And somehow the conversation moved to carrying condition 1. He said that the public is not allowed to carry condition 1. Claimed that only police can carry with a round chambered.
    "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

    Condition 2
    - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

    Condition 3
    - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

    Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

    I too agree with the NEVER GO ASK.

    Finally.. REGAL is anti gun. Of the 30 foot long ticket window.. you will fine a clear sticker with very small back text (bring you magnifying glass and if you really wanna READ it, ask a ticker seller to hold up a white piece of paper agaist the glass to give the small text some contrast). There is also a little image of a revolver with a red circle and line thru it. So I don't carry a revolver.



    BUT OC and or ASKING could end up putting LARGE SIGNS on ALL DOORS.

    Ed


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    nova wrote:
    If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...



    ProShooter wrote: Your suggestion that "they (GMU Police)are uneducated about Virginia law" is a bit over the top.
    nova wrote: I never said GMU PD is uneducated on gun laws,



    ok, color me confused......
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    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    nova wrote:
    And did you get the name of the guy? If he claims to be a GMU officer, a letter to the GMU police chief might be in order if they are uneducated on VA law...
    I don't really see why this is necessary.....seems to be rather incendiary for no reason.
    I see it as necessary because GMU PD not only has jurisdiction on GMU's campus but also on all adjoining roads. They're commonly seen in the shopping center across the street, and all through the City of Fairfax, both places I regularly open carry. It is a bad thing when a sworn law enforcement officer preaches things as law when they are in fact not.
    BUT......the officer in question was not serving in his capacity (apparently from the story) as a GMU police officer, but rather as a private security guard for the theater. Was he in a GMU uniform? Your suggestion that "they (GMU Police)are uneducated about Virginia law" is a bit over the top. Believe me when I say that I worked with ALOT of deputies that were not "gun people" and couldnt even tell you what Condition 1 was. Maybe the officer didnt really know and was embarassed by the question since he didnt know the answer, and he got it wrong....stuff happens.

    The OP engaged the officer/guard in a conversation and the officer/guard made a mistake in his reply. He was misinformed. He didnt confront the OP nor did he take any official action which inhibited or restricted the rights of the OP in any way. Gosh, if I called someone's manager everytime a human being made a mistake, I'd be on the phone all damn day.

    "What do you mean that the item is not in stock? I called yesterday and you had 2. I'm sending a letter to your boss to complain!"

    "Waitress, I ordered my eggs scrambled, these are fried. I want to see your manager right now"....

    I have no problem holding people accountable for serious mistakes, but I don't play tattle-tale if someone makes a simple mistake. Shouldn't we have a bit more compassion and understanding for another human being than that?
    This is a VERY fine line.
    I happen to agree with Pro Shooter about this. Had the officer pulled someone or made that statement while on duty and talking to the OP, BUST HIS ASS. But a casual conversation is different. IMO, you should have corrected him sternly but the simple fact is, we all say thing that are incorrect sometimes.

    I believe firmly in filling an officers file when he deserves it but it doesn't look like he did anything other than making an incorrect comment.

    Not being a diplomat, I may have finished the conversation by saying that what he doesn't know would fill a good sized library....but I doubt I would have complained to the boss.

    A lot of cops are Stupid ...er STOOPID, but not necessarily bad.

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    Don't forget wheel guns. My concealed (and sometimes OC"d) gun is always in condition two unless I unload a chamber. No safety at all. No external hammer.

    Or is it condition one? Whatever. Unloaded gun is like a car without gas. Still some use, but not for it's primary purpose.
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    ed wrote:
    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    And somehow the conversation moved to carrying condition 1. He said that the public is not allowed to carry condition 1. Claimed that only police can carry with a round chambered.
    "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

    Condition 2
    - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

    Condition 3
    - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

    Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

    I too agree with the NEVER GO ASK.

    Finally.. REGAL is anti gun. Of the 30 foot long ticket window.. you will fine a clear sticker with very small back text (bring you magnifying glass and if you really wanna READ it, ask a ticker seller to hold up a white piece of paper agaist the glass to give the small text some contrast). There is also a little image of a revolver with a red circle and line thru it. So I don't carry a revolver.



    BUT OC and or ASKING could end up putting LARGE SIGNS on ALL DOORS.

    Ed

    But I mean wouldnt putting large signs up after asking prevent possibly OC harassment instead of going in OC and having management flip, police be called, and all the other hassle? I mean Im all for OC, but the scene that it would make and the chaos that could come of that really seems pretty needless when asking only causes them to put a sign up. My response to those businesses? Fine, you dont even get a second thought for me to patronize your business.

    I understand some people want to prove the point with our 2A rights, but Im a little more cautious. I dont have money to burn on a lawyer when I get arrested because some proprietor or business owner completely blows something out of proportion. (And I know that you guys will say lawsuit and the recent ruling about the department paying for the wrongful arrest proceedings, but I cant lose my job or time in school to prove that point.) Until then Ill use this community as a highly resourceful tool in identifying gun friendly and unfriendly businesses. I respect your decisions to carry until told otherwise, but like I said before, asking is something I was raised to do.

    As I see it, large signs on all the doors would be better anyway. It only marks them so we know not to contribute to their business and makes it easier for those that do carry but arent a part of this community to notice as well.
    OC - Kimber Custom II - trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, and Wilson combat mags
    CC/OC Sig Sauer 229 - trijicon night sights

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