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Thread: new study concerning gun carry

  1. #1
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    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922



    Wow, who whould have thought?

    I thought different.

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    I'm a bit bugged by the study. There was very little info like how many of the people shot/killed were open carrying and legally carrying, how many were gang members or known for gang activity? I can agree homies with guns think they are tougher than their rivals. I can't disagree the normal human feels more comfortable with everyday activities when they are armed but I can disagree that the normal citizen is more likely to act when they have a gun. I emphasize normal. Like I've commented before, if you are the type of person to act you will, whether it be by gun, stick, rock, nearest bottle, or hand to hand combat. There are as many different personalities as there are guns and I am no expert. Just a bit bugged at anything that makes gun carriers look bad.
    -banki-

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    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    cheese wrote:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922



    Wow, who whould have thought?

    I thought different.
    For a real study and a great book of something researched that isn't "new and in the beginning stages", try a real source of info that shows that guns in the hands of citizens decreases and deters crime.

    More guns, less crime.

    http://www.press.uchicago.edu/presss...ookkey=3635890

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    clearly persons have opinions. I suppose almost anyone can determine an outcome and then do a study and research that supports the opinion desired.

  5. #5
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    cheese wrote:
    clearly persons have opinions. I suppose almost anyone can determine an outcome and then do a study and research that supports the opinion desired.
    Wow, you are such a genious. Why don't you start one for us and get back with the results in say a year or so since anyone can do it. I would love to see your published findings.
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    do you have an issue with me that you need to resolve?

  7. #7
    Regular Member LovesHisXD45's Avatar
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    cheese wrote:
    do you have an issue with me that you need to resolve?
    Yes, I question your motives for posting here. Have you even red John Lott's book? You are ignorant. I'm calling you out for what you are, and that is an uneducated ignorant troll. Now, go back under your bridge and behave.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    You seem very hostile. How can I help you resolve your issues?

    I found an article that was on subject for the website, was interesting to me and thought others might also look into it.

    Why the anger and name calling?

    Are you so narrowminded and insecure that you cannot discuss the issues?

    Dose name calling and dick headery make you feel better?

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    cheese wrote:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922



    Wow, who whould have thought?

    I thought different.
    This "study" has already been debunked, see http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=5168

  10. #10
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    Mike wrote:
    This "study" has already been debunked, see http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=5168
    Exactly. Here were my thoughts as soon as I read of this study last week:

    RE: gun safetyMy first question on this study would be whether the victims of shootings who were carrying a gun are representative of the law abiding public or whether a disproportionate number of the shooting victims who carried a gun were in fact known criminals including gangsters involved in the drug trade.

    Simply put, I believe the dynamics of a shooting where one criminal shoots another criminal (which also happens to be the biggest contributor of the percentage of shooting victims who knew their assailant) are very different than the crime of opportunity in which a criminal selects a law abiding person as a victim of a crime. A criminal shooting another criminal over a drug deal gone bad, over a turf war, as a retaliation for some prior slight, etc is determined and has a specific goal in mind. Ask the US Secret Service about how difficult it is to protect a known target from a motivated assailant. In contrast, a criminal looking for a crime of opportunity is looking for best pay off with least risk.

    This is why uniformed police officers and NFL linebackers are not often mugged by lone, assailants. The moment a victim makes clear that he or she can put up a reasonable fight (such as by revealing the presence of a previously concealed gun), the most common reaction is for the criminal to flee. Indeed, in over 90% of the cases in which a gun is used to stop a crime in progress, the intended victim never even gets a chance to fire the gun as the assailant breaks off the assault and flees before the victim feels compelled to actually use deadly force (as compared to make a credible threat to use deadly force).
    This leads directly to my second question, which is why did the study limit itself to asking whether or not carrying a gun reduces the chances of getting shot rather than considering whether carrying a gun reduces the chances of being victimized at all? Getting shot is bad. But so too is getting stabbed, getting raped, having your car car jacked, or being strong armed into giving up your wallet even if no weapon is displayed. One may well ask how the results of this study would be different had they focused on whether or not carrying a gun reduces a womans odds of being the victim of stranger and/or forcible rape.
    It should not be the least bit surprising that once a criminal gets it into his head to shoot someone that simply havingeven usinga gun defensively may not have much effect on whether or not the criminals bullet reaches its intended mark. But left unasked, and thus unanswered, is what effect having a gun has on the whole host of crimes other than being shot.
    Other studies often touted by the CDC, Brady bunch, and other anti-gun groups will make the fundamental mistake (or engage in the overt dishonesty, depending on whether the studys authors are merely incompetent, or downright malicious) of assuming that the only successful use of a gun is to shoot a criminal. Such a view is analogous to presuming that the police are only doing their job if they shoot suspects rather than peacefully arresting them. From an intended victims point of view, shooting an assailant is not the goal. The goal is to end the attack and go home safely. If that requires shooting the criminal, so be it. But if that can be achieved without even having to discharge the firearm, but merely by displaying it, even better; a LOT less hassle.

    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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  11. #11
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    Thank you for the feedback Mike.

    That was thoughtful and informative.

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    People who carry guns get shot!

    People who die from falling out of airplanes almost always have parachutes on, the parachute must be dangerous -- or is it the helmets that those dead people were wearing.

    The "study" cited above is absolutely ludicrous on any statistical basis. Pure propaganda.

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    well ill tell you what... the likelihood of a person who has a gun or knife in their hand anduses it in a threatening manner, has a higher chance of getting shot by ME

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    P.S. im starting to get the impression that cheese is a troll POSING as one of us

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    cheese wrote:
    b1ack5mith wrote:
    P.S. im starting to get the impression that cheese is a troll POSING as one of us
    --Deleted-- --Rules Violation--
    This forum is ABOUT carrying guns. It's what the forum was CREATED for. "OpenCarry.org" it's not about openly carrying bricks in your pocket, it's about exercising a right given to us by our forefathers. Whatever a person's motives for it are, he/she is allowed by law to carry. That does not mean they're scared of everything. I carry my gun because I *AM* afraid. I'm afraid some meth head needs some money to score his next fix and my apartment is going to look appetizing. I'm afraid that when my wife and I are leaving a restaurant with my newborn son at 10pm, someone is going to be drunk or high or just pissed off at his ex he was just beating left on him and will want to take it out on us as being random passerby.

    Others carry because it's their belief that their armed presence will possibly deter a crime. Go, find us a study about how many crimes were deterred because the BG decided not to commit it because they saw an armed citizen. There isn't. Because of that reason alone, the study you posted is garbage. Since you can't count the number of deterred crimes, you cannot have point/counterpoint.

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    hey I changed my post to "some of you". clearly you feel like I attacked YOU. Seems like everytime I post what "I" think is reasonable some . So deal with it.

    I am a 2 a supporter and I carry everyday.

    So I belong.

  17. #17
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    cheese wrote:
    .
    cheese wrote:
    I am a 2 a supporter and I carry everyday.
    Sooooo... Since some of us are , and carry a gun to feel like a man, what does that make you since you also carry everyday?
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    you don't see me whining about somone asking me a question about my gun do you?

    its like having a cool car, people are gonna ask. big deal.

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    I don't see you doing anything BUT whining. And insulting people. And being a plain jack ass.

    A true Black Eye for gun owners you are.

  20. #20
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    And again:



  21. #21
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    Any chance we can get a mod to take care of this?

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    I doubt it. I brought something similar up about a week ago and nothing has happend.

    Thx and his crew get to run this place.

  23. #23
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    when I noted that LOVESHISXD45, thx and jensen get to post whatever they want with no corrections I started to respond with a bit of edge in my posts.



  24. #24
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    cheese wrote:
    when I noted that LOVESHISXD45, thx and jensen get to post whatever they want with no corrections I started to respond with a bit of edge in my posts.

    Everybody posts what they want as long as they're not a troll. Not getting the picture?

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    are you saying I have to agree with you?

    are you saying that having my OWN opinion and not being in fear of the POLICE is a problem?

    Does that make one a troll?

    Why dont you define TROLL for me.

    Seems to me that having an opinion that does not align with some others makes one a troll.

    Are YOU getting the picture?

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