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Thread: I OpenCarried today in front of 30+ cops

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I OpenCarried today in front of 30+ cops: Leesburg Police, Virginia State Police and Loudoun County

    Everyone was kind and professional. I even got interviewed LIVE on channel 4 this mornng with re-runs thruout the day and not ONE mention of the firearm.



    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Here was the news piece:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/QrU8LRp4PgM
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Harper1227's Avatar
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    well done Ed!

    Good to see such a large crowd.



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    Well said, Ed.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Well done!

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Love the shirt, love the support even more.

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    Good show ed. Bloody good show

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Maybe they assumed you were military

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    open carry at all leesburg va events

    yeah the leesburg PD doesn't normally care you open carry. I have gone to concerts 4th of july fairs and farmers market and even the parades. I didn't even know that you can have a drink and even open carry but not conceal carry. Now I wouldn't advise drinking while carrying but you can have a beer without getting in trouble as long as open carrying according to virginia law. As for me, I don't like to drink but I think its neat that we can excercise our rights here in the commonwealth. I like that someone can get a beer or a cup of wine without having any problems this is a great state.

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opencarrypalmtrees View Post
    yeah the leesburg PD doesn't normally care you open carry. I have gone to concerts 4th of july fairs and farmers market and even the parades. I didn't even know that you can have a drink and even open carry but not conceal carry. Now I wouldn't advise drinking while carrying but you can have a beer without getting in trouble as long as open carrying according to virginia law. As for me, I don't like to drink but I think its neat that we can excercise our rights here in the commonwealth. I like that someone can get a beer or a cup of wine without having any problems this is a great state.
    Why do you keep bringing up posts that are years old?
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  11. #11
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Why do you keep bringing up posts that are years old?
    Maybe there's nothing current thats newsworthy?

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=necropost
    James Reynolds

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    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Ed,
    Good show of support for country.
    Thank you,
    Larry

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Exclamation BAH! Get rid of that shirt ed!

    Don't want to be a debbie downer Ed, and I realize you're just trying to be patriotic.....BUT

    US Code, Chapter 4

    § 8. Respect for Flag.

    (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.

    (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.


    One may argue that you have on a shirt, not a "flag." In case anyone does they can read section 3 of chapter 4.

    US Code, Chapter 4

    § 3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag

    The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.


    This is indeed federal law guys, the flag is a great symbol of this country and the men and women who fought and died for it. I spent some time in Honor Guard at the Base level in the Air Force, I know a bit about the flag and the way it is to be treated. Everytime I see someone with a flag shirt, hat, or their favorite football teams flag in the position of honor over the American flag I cringe inside. (most of the time it is military personell I see violating the flag! they don't even know!)

    Please don't think I'm hammering you, you probably didn't know. Consider yourself informed and armed with knowledge
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    +1 Schlitz. It's against the fashion law and US law.

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    Regular Member Sesrun's Avatar
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    Although I do not condone the actions in either of the cases cited below, according to Supreme Court the enforcement of the United States Flag Code would be in violation of the First Amendment if applied to private citizens or groups. Therefore, the United States Flag Code is only binding on government institutions displaying the flag.

    Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    The flag should never be used as wearing apparel
    It is NOT a flag, it is a stars and stripes shirt.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    As a Marine who believes in what this country was founded on I say do whatever you see fit with the American flag. It your right. While I respect and fly it proudly day and night (yes it's lit) you may display it as you see fit no matter how despicable I or you may think it is.
    Last edited by cyras21; 08-15-2011 at 11:55 AM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Sesrun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    It is NOT a flag, it is a stars and stripes shirt.
    While still noting the US Flag Code doesn't apply to private citizens or groups & your right to display said flag as you see fit with no judgement from myself...

    Yes [flags on T-shirts, ties, etc., are really flags]. According to the Flag Code, a flag is anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag."

    The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.

    Source: Flag Code, Section 3

    Therefore, a flag includes any representation of it of any substance, with stars and stripes of any number. This would include T-shirts and ties.

    Other references in the Flag Code relevant to this question are:

    The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. (section 8d)
    It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like (section 8i)
    [It should not be] printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes (section 8i)
    The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature. (section 8g)
    No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. (section 8j)

    The Flag Code states that the flag should never be worn. (Section 8d): "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel."
    reference: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/faq.htm


    But personally I think the shirt is a neat design...
    Last edited by Sesrun; 08-15-2011 at 12:02 PM.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyras21 View Post
    As a Marine who believes in what this country was founded on I say do whatever you see fit with the American flag. It your right. While I respect and fly it proudly day and night (yes it's lit) you may display it as you see fit no matter how despicable I or you may think it is.
    What this country was founded on died 150 years ago.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    It is NOT a flag, it is a stars and stripes shirt.
    Yes, that is usually the argument put forth by people who are violating the flag. That is why I cited Section 3 of the US Flag Code. It is law, it is just not enforced. Like some said, it can be construed to be a violation of ones First Amendment rights.

    I just thought you didn't know you were actually disrespecting the flag in an attempt to respect it. I'm not trying to be harsh, but how you treat the flag is prohibited in a section called "Respect for the Flag." Thus you were doing the opposite of respecting the flag, aka disrespecting.

    So continue to wear your shirt, step on your flag floor mat, and wipe food from your mouth with your flag napkins. It is your right to disrespect the flag consciously or not knowing about it at all. I thought that being a fellow patriot you would consider the words from a serviceman who serves under the flag, salutes the flag, and has buried brothers in arms draped in that flag. But no, you will turn your head and say it's just a shirt, it's just a floor mat, it's just a napkin. Do whatever what the hell do I know right?

    Sorry, as you can see I take the flag very seriously. Most people don't understand. After arguing with an elderly man at church (they had it displayed wrong and he was trying to tell me, the honor guard airman who was citing the US Flag Code that I was wrong) everyone got on my case with, "dude, it's just a flag, it's just a piece of cloth." Tell that to the people who held it up while for McHenry was getting wasted. They died one after the other just to keep that flag flying.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    While still noting the US Flag Code doesn't apply to private citizens
    Could you please cite in the flag code where it says it does not apply to citizens? And what are "private citizens?" Is that term in anyway different than "citizens?"



    I am aware Flag Code is not enforced by police and taking a dump on the flag is protected under the Bill of Rights, but I need to know where you got this idea that it doesn't apply to citizens.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  22. #22
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with the milkshake. If it looks like a flag, red and white stripes with white stars on a square blue field, then it really is the flag or a close representation of it. That's why bunting was invented. So one could decorate a room or even his person with the colors. Just like Uncle Sam does. Of course I'm not sure what photo of Ed is at issue here either.....

    I found this collection of old Uncle Sam posters; http://www.sonofthesouth.net/uncle-s...m-pictures.htm

    I'm not exactly sure where the line is between bunting and flag.....

    And Wylde007, I agree. "They", have been trying to kill this country since it started. The first big hit was 150 years ago but it really got a head of steam in the 30's with another big boost in the 60's..... We have been ignoring the Constitution for a long time. I believe it can still be turned around but it ain't gonna happen overnight.
    Last edited by Neplusultra; 08-15-2011 at 03:13 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Sesrun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Could you please cite in the flag code where it says it does not apply to citizens? And what are "private citizens?" Is that term in anyway different than "citizens?"



    I am aware Flag Code is not enforced by police and taking a dump on the flag is protected under the Bill of Rights, but I need to know where you got this idea that it doesn't apply to citizens.

    The flag code states no such thing, however through both Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989) & United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990) the Supreme Court has ruled that punitive enforcement of the Flag Code on individual citizens would constitute a breach of the First Amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Brennan (Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989))
    We do not consecrate the flag by punishing its desecration, for in doing so we dilute the freedom that this cherished emblem represents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Brennan (United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990))
    Government may create national symbols, promote them, and encourage their respectful treatment. 9 But the Flag Protection Act of 1989 goes well beyond this by criminally proscribing expressive conduct because of its likely communicative impact.

    We are aware that desecration of the flag is deeply offensive to many. But the same might be said, for example, of virulent ethnic and religious epithets, see Terminiello v. Chicago, 337 U.S. 1 (1949), vulgar repudiations of the draft, see [496 U.S. 310, 319] Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971), and scurrilous caricatures, see Hustler Magazine, Inc. v. Falwell, 485 U.S. 46 (1988). "If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the Government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable." Johnson, supra, at 414. Punishing desecration of the flag dilutes the very freedom that makes this emblem so revered, and worth revering.

  24. #24
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    What this country was founded on died 150 years ago.
    what would that be?

  25. #25
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    what would that be?
    I take it you're not from these parts :^).

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