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taurusfan

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I was at Burlington Coat Factory once in Richmond near the entrance as two HUGE black males walked out setting off the alarm...the 75 year old white haired female store employee there asked them to stop they didn't pay the slightest attention to her.

There I was with my GLOCK watching this of course it wasn't my problem.
 

TFred

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Citizen wrote:
It seems to me we've discussed the whole alarm/receipt checking thingbefore on this forum; but, darned if I can remember where it settled with respect to the law. Seems to me there was some discussion and even conclusion that refusalto cooperate was considered RAS of shoplifting,supported bythe shopper's prior knowledge that he would be receipt-checked.Meaning if he disagreed, he could shop elsewhere.
Wow... yeah, I'm not asking you to go find what you are remembering, but I would be very interested in seeing a credible source for this beyond someone's "it's obvious that it should be this way" sort of speculation.

This subject crops up once in a while on consumer related forums, and the best I've seen them do there is in the case of the big box warehouse stores where your membership contract says you agree to submit to a receipt check. And even there, all they can do if you refuse is revoke your membership and ask you to leave.

TFred
 

Citizen

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TFred wrote:
Citizen wrote:
It seems to me we've discussed the whole alarm/receipt checking thingbefore on this forum; but, darned if I can remember where it settled with respect to the law. Seems to me there was some discussion and even conclusion that refusalto cooperate was considered RAS of shoplifting,supported bythe shopper's prior knowledge that he would be receipt-checked.Meaning if he disagreed, he could shop elsewhere.
Wow... yeah, I'm not asking you to go find what you are remembering, but I would be very interested in seeing a credible source for this beyond someone's "it's obvious that it should be this way" sort of speculation.

This subject crops up once in a while on consumer related forums, and the best I've seen them do there is in the case of the big box warehouse stores where your membership contract says you agree to submit to a receipt check. And even there, all they can do if you refuse is revoke your membership and ask you to leave.

TFred
The more I think about it, the more I think the earlier discussions lacked case cites.
 

Tomahawk

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My take on this is that since Walmart and other stores are owned by actual people, not the government, I am a guest in their stores. If they want to look at my receipt at the door, it's their perogative. It's just another check after the cashier rings me up.

I know it's just for show, heck, these checkers rarely even read the receipt or look in the bag; they just go through the motions to keep honest people honest. They aren't "tracking" me or keeping a record of any kind. Usually they cannot do anything to you if you ignore them, but it's not my store so I play nice. I have no right to act the ass on someone else's property; if I don't like how they run their store I can shop somewhere else, which is my right.

Now, if these were government employees overstepping their authority, then by all means I support you blowing them off with an air of contempt.
 

TFred

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Tomahawk wrote:
My take on this is that since Walmart and other stores are owned by actual people, not the government, I am a guest in their stores. If they want to look at my receipt at the door, it's their perogative. It's just another check after the cashier rings me up.

I know it's just for show, heck, these checkers rarely even read the receipt or look in the bag; they just go through the motions to keep honest people honest. They aren't "tracking" me or keeping a record of any kind. Usually they cannot do anything to you if you ignore them, but it's not my store so I play nice. I have no right to act the ass on someone else's property; if I don't like how they run their store I can shop somewhere else, which is my right.

Now, if these were government employees overstepping their authority, then by all means I support you blowing them off with an air of contempt.
The problem with your analogy is that you ignore what is really happening. If you were invited to someone's house for dinner or a holiday party (as much advertising as these stores do, you are being invited), and as you left they insisted on searching your personal belongings to ensure you didn't steal any silverware, do you really think you'd be OK with that?

The only fact that has any bearing is that you own the stuff you just bought, and unless they have RAS that you have committed a crime, they cross the line when they ask to search you for stolen merchandise.

There is no difference between walking out of a store, walking in front of your house on a sidewalk, sitting in your car at a stoplight, without RAS, nobody has the right to search your person.

TFred
 

Tomahawk

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TFred wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
My take on this is that since Walmart and other stores are owned by actual people, not the government, I am a guest in their stores. If they want to look at my receipt at the door, it's their perogative. It's just another check after the cashier rings me up.

I know it's just for show, heck, these checkers rarely even read the receipt or look in the bag; they just go through the motions to keep honest people honest. They aren't "tracking" me or keeping a record of any kind. Usually they cannot do anything to you if you ignore them, but it's not my store so I play nice. I have no right to act the ass on someone else's property; if I don't like how they run their store I can shop somewhere else, which is my right.

Now, if these were government employees overstepping their authority, then by all means I support you blowing them off with an air of contempt.
The problem with your analogy is that you ignore what is really happening. If you were invited to someone's house for dinner or a holiday party (as much advertising as these stores do, you are being invited), and as you left they insisted on searching your personal belongings to ensure you didn't steal any silverware, do you really think you'd be OK with that?

The only fact that has any bearing is that you own the stuff you just bought, and unless they have RAS that you have committed a crime, they cross the line when they ask to search you for stolen merchandise.

There is no difference between walking out of a store, walking in front of your house on a sidewalk, sitting in your car at a stoplight, without RAS, nobody has the right to search your person.

TFred

Well, I suppose you have a point.
 

TFred

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Tomahawk wrote:
Well, I suppose you have a point.
That's how I see it at least, but believe me, there are plenty of folks who adamantly argue that one should just hand it over... that just doesn't seem to match most philosophies held here though. :)

TFred
 

Citizen

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For what it is worth, since I've been OCing, I've never been asked to show a receipt at WalMart or Home Depot.

I did set off the alarm once. I instantly knew that playful ammo counter salesman hadn't neutralized a tag. I made it a point to tease him about it the next visit.

"Trying to get me arrested, huh?"

I might have added that the cops weren't dumb enough to fall for it. But, I didn't want to lie.

:D
 

Tomahawk

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TFred wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
Well, I suppose you have a point.
That's how I see it at least, but believe me, there are plenty of folks who adamantly argue that one should just hand it over... that just doesn't seem to match most philosophies held here though. :)

TFred

I understand. I'm just trying to distinguish between government employees and those emplyed by private property-owners to act as agents.

I have seen many people here claim that the 2nd Amm. protects them from, say, me, should I decide to ban guns in my house and invite them over for dinner. Nonsense, of course, the BOR protects you on public property and in your own property from government, not from Walmart employees, who have no right to come into your house anyway.

But I see your point. If a Walmart door checker can look into my stuff, then presumably he can also look down my pants to see if I've got any shoplifted items inside my clothes, too, which was clearly not part of the implied deal when they invited me inside to shop.
 

taurusfan

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I learned something new at Kroger just this week...on the U-Scan there's a yellow sticker that says touch here after scanning, it's to de-activate the security device in certain items.

I've never set off an alarm at Kroger so I don't know what's got the security but a worker told me some packages of meat have it.
 

MSC 45ACP

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glockfan wrote:
I learned something new at Kroger just this week...on the U-Scan there's a yellow sticker that says touch here after scanning, it's to de-activate the security device in certain items.

I've never set off an alarm at Kroger so I don't know what's got the security but a worker told me some packages of meat have it.

You know times are hard when they start putting anti-theft devices on MEAT and groceries!!!
 

Tomahawk

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
glockfan wrote:
I learned something new at Kroger just this week...on the U-Scan there's a yellow sticker that says touch here after scanning, it's to de-activate the security device in certain items.

I've never set off an alarm at Kroger so I don't know what's got the security but a worker told me some packages of meat have it.

You know times are hard when they start putting anti-theft devices on MEAT and groceries!!!
Actually theft of meat and groceries is quite common.
 

2a4all

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
Maybe common in your AOR, but not in mine. It happens, but it isn't "common" here.
My sonis a Farm Fresh store manager, and every store he's workedat has had shoplifter activity. Sometimes it's an employee boosting stuff out the back, but more frequently it'sa (male)customer stuffing meat downhis pants, or a female customer using a large handbag to boost groceries. Many (grocery) stores have high-dollar surveillnace systems in order todocument the in-store movement of a suspected thiefin order tosuccessfully prosecute them in court. He says that this activity is a high priority with Loss Prevention.
 

MSC 45ACP

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I'd be interested to know if my local Farm Fresh has much of a problem. Its pretty quiet here and there isn't a lot of crime reported. Does this often go unreported and they chalk it up to "shrinkage"? I've always thought our local store was pretty much like what my kids call it: "Stepford Wives". I OC there all the time and never get any :shock:. Its closest to my home and the crime rate here is near zero.
 

TFred

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My local PD has a daily crime report on the city web page, there are frequent instances of shoplifting at the local super wally, but they don't say what it is that is being lifted.

Rarely makes the newspaper unless it's really high dollar or a well organized group behind it.

TFred
 

Tomahawk

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My brother is a manager at a retail store and he tells me about the shoplifters stealing the most rediculous things, stuffing shampoo bottles and toothpaste tubes down their pants and so forth. He says they try to steal cheap things in aisles you wouldn't think are being watched. Then they walk straight to the nearest bus stop less than a block away and sit there like idiots waiting for a bus, making it easy for my brother to point them out to the cops.
 

MSC 45ACP

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Can't happen like that here... We ain't got no stinkin busses! Everyone drives. I'm sure there are incidents of shoplifting, but it isn't very common. I'll try to find the stats on shoplifting at local stores.

Just looked up local crime stats for recent activity. For the week of 28 SEP - 4 OCT, there were 69 police reports made. Four of them were for shoplifting. Maybe it ain't quite Mayberry, but it ain't far from it.

For the same week, there were 19 arrests.

:cool:
 
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