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Thread: Virgina FFA

  1. #1
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    I was wondering if we should organize an effortfor each of us tocall our respective representitives to the Va House or Senate to get our own firearms freedom act bill up for a vote. If we get it in before the end of November there should be time to get it on the floor for next February I believe.

    I'm sure we have a member in every district on this forum. A well worded, practiced suggestion, to our Reps. could be made available to those of us less talented in speechcraft.

    Any thoughts? Sugestions?

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    I recall such a bill being proposed last session but it was discarded due to being submitted after the cutoff date.

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    I'm glad Pagan provided clarification, because I was wondering what exactly Future Farmers of America had to do with OC.

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    When New York cops came to Virginia attempting to purchase firearms illegally, they committed felonies under both U.S. and Virginia law. Have any of them been charged with crimes and extradited for trial in Virginia? Not hardly.

    I think that shows you where the trouble lies. Legislation doesn't do anything, and the so-called "firearms freedom act" especially doesn't do anything. It is an attempt to overcome rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court and there's no question that the U.S. won't regard that as a possibility. Nor will the law enforcement community in Virginia. Do you suppose that passing a law is going to get BATFE agents arrested for assaulting a gun shop owner who sells intrastate manufactured firearms?

    It is my opinion that the Montana act is an accurate statement of law, generally. I never bought this "affecting interstate commerce" thing, any more than the idea that "reasonable regulation" isn't "infringement".

    The trick is going to be to get people elected to Congress who won't be cowed, and who won't do anything to fund the government unless and until the tyranny is eliminated. Yeah, right, like that's gonna happen.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Even when fighting tyranny, winning hearts in minds comes first. If you get too far ahead of your troops, you'll just get picked off first. And that doesn't do much for morale.

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    Which is exactly why the Senate became nonfunctional in the Roman Empire. No one wanted to stick his neck out, because he knew he'd get it chopped off; and as long as his official position and power were preserved by The State then each one did whatever The State required.

    You can tell who the pioneers are: they're the ones with the arrows in their backs.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Yes we should Pagan.

    If for no other reason than Cuccinelli seems to be the probable Attorney General and would be very effective in enforcing the law within Virginia.

    I think it would be a great 10th A tool for limiting Creeping Federal Power.

    Will it work in the end? I hope so, but whether it does or not, at the very least it will make the Feds very uncomfortable and I hope have a very chilling effect upon the enemies of our sovereign states.

    10th A website has model legislation.


    Live Free or Die,

    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    I think that shows you where the trouble lies. Legislation doesn't do anything, and the so-called "firearms freedom act" especially doesn't do anything. It is an attempt to overcome rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court and there's no question that the U.S. won't regard that as a possibility. Nor will the law enforcement community in Virginia. Do you suppose that passing a law is going to get BATFE agents arrested for assaulting a gun shop owner who sells intrastate manufactured firearms?
    There would be action if I found myself on a grand jury and there was another like minded citizen on the grand jury.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  9. #9
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    Thundar wrote:
    ...There would be action if I found myself on a grand jury and there was another like minded citizen on the grand jury.
    I wish grand jurors were better educated about their role as "grand inquisitor" and more self-directed; they tend to be led by the nose by prosecutors. When a grand jury actually starts doing its job, it's referred to as a "runaway grand jury" by the prosecutors. It's illegal in Virginia, btw, for the prosecutors to be present in order to influence the jurors during a session. (So they instruct the grand jury as to how to complete the indictment forms during the "investigation" phase, then leave them alone to fill out the forms. I've always wondered how much deliberation takes place.)

    § 19.2-191. Functions of a grand jury.

    The functions of a grand jury are twofold:

    (1) To consider bills of indictment prepared by the attorney for the Commonwealth and to determine whether as to each such bill there is sufficient probable cause to return such indictment "a true bill."

    (2) To investigate and report on any condition that involves or tends to promote criminal activity, either in the community or by any governmental authority, agency or official thereof. These functions may be exercised by either a special grand jury or a regular grand jury as hereinafter provided.
    § 19.2-210. Presence of attorney for the Commonwealth.

    The attorney for the Commonwealth shall not be present at any time while the special grand jury is in session except that during the investigatory stage of its proceedings he may be present. When the special grand jury is impanelled upon motion of the court or recommendation of a regular grand jury, he may be present during the investigatory stage only when his presence is requested by the special grand jury and may interrogate witnesses provided the special grand jury requests or consents to such interrogation. When the special grand jury was impanelled upon his request, he may examine any witness called to testify or produce evidence, but his examination of a witness shall in no way affect the right of any grand juror to examine the witness.

    The attorney for the Commonwealth shall not be present during or after the investigative stage of the proceedings at any time while the special grand jury is discussing, evaluating or considering the testimony of a witness or is deliberating in order to reach decisions or prepare its report, except that he may be present when his legal advice is requested by the special grand jury.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    ...There would be action if I found myself on a grand jury and there was another like minded citizen on the grand jury.
    I wish grand jurors were better educated about their role as "grand inquisitor" and more self-directed; they tend to be led by the nose by prosecutors. When a grand jury actually starts doing its job, it's referred to as a "runaway grand jury" by the prosecutors. It's illegal in Virginia, btw, for the prosecutors to be present in order to influence the jurors during a session. (So they instruct the grand jury as to how to complete the indictment forms during the "investigation" phase, then leave them alone to fill out the forms. I've always wondered how much deliberation takes place.)

    § 19.2-191. Functions of a grand jury.

    The functions of a grand jury are twofold:

    (1) To consider bills of indictment prepared by the attorney for the Commonwealth and to determine whether as to each such bill there is sufficient probable cause to return such indictment "a true bill."

    (2) To investigate and report on any condition that involves or tends to promote criminal activity, either in the community or by any governmental authority, agency or official thereof. These functions may be exercised by either a special grand jury or a regular grand jury as hereinafter provided.
    § 19.2-210. Presence of attorney for the Commonwealth.

    The attorney for the Commonwealth shall not be present at any time while the special grand jury is in session except that during the investigatory stage of its proceedings he may be present. When the special grand jury is impanelled upon motion of the court or recommendation of a regular grand jury, he may be present during the investigatory stage only when his presence is requested by the special grand jury and may interrogate witnesses provided the special grand jury requests or consents to such interrogation. When the special grand jury was impanelled upon his request, he may examine any witness called to testify or produce evidence, but his examination of a witness shall in no way affect the right of any grand juror to examine the witness.

    The attorney for the Commonwealth shall not be present during or after the investigative stage of the proceedings at any time while the special grand jury is discussing, evaluating or considering the testimony of a witness or is deliberating in order to reach decisions or prepare its report, except that he may be present when his legal advice is requested by the special grand jury.
    can they comprehend presentments?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  11. #11
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    ...There would be action if I found myself on a grand jury and there was another like minded citizen on the grand jury.
    I wish grand jurors were better educated about their role as "grand inquisitor" and more self-directed; they tend to be led by the nose by prosecutors. When a grand jury actually starts doing its job, it's referred to as a "runaway grand jury" by the prosecutors. It's illegal in Virginia, btw, for the prosecutors to be present in order to influence the jurors during a session. (So they instruct the grand jury as to how to complete the indictment forms during the "investigation" phase, then leave them alone to fill out the forms. I've always wondered how much deliberation takes place.)

    § 19.2-191. Functions of a grand jury.

    The functions of a grand jury are twofold:

    (1) To consider bills of indictment prepared by the attorney for the Commonwealth and to determine whether as to each such bill there is sufficient probable cause to return such indictment "a true bill."

    (2) To investigate and report on any condition that involves or tends to promote criminal activity, either in the community or by any governmental authority, agency or official thereof. These functions may be exercised by either a special grand jury or a regular grand jury as hereinafter provided.
    § 19.2-210. Presence of attorney for the Commonwealth.

    The attorney for the Commonwealth shall not be present at any time while the special grand jury is in session except that during the investigatory stage of its proceedings he may be present. When the special grand jury is impanelled upon motion of the court or recommendation of a regular grand jury, he may be present during the investigatory stage only when his presence is requested by the special grand jury and may interrogate witnesses provided the special grand jury requests or consents to such interrogation. When the special grand jury was impanelled upon his request, he may examine any witness called to testify or produce evidence, but his examination of a witness shall in no way affect the right of any grand juror to examine the witness.

    The attorney for the Commonwealth shall not be present during or after the investigative stage of the proceedings at any time while the special grand jury is discussing, evaluating or considering the testimony of a witness or is deliberating in order to reach decisions or prepare its report, except that he may be present when his legal advice is requested by the special grand jury.
    can they comprehend presentments?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  12. #12
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    Some of 'em are really smart, some of 'em are really dumb, and most of 'em are average WalMart shoppers.

    Btw, as to the effectiveness of legislation: if legislation actually did something, Prince George's Co., MD would be a very safe place to live, because no one would have any guns at all.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  13. #13
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    user wrote:
    Some of 'em are really smart, some of 'em are really dumb, and most of 'em are average WalMart shoppers.

    Btw, as to the effectiveness of legislation: if legislation actually did something, Prince George's Co., MD would be a very safe place to live, because no one would have any guns at all.
    Thank you for the best laugh I've had all week! That was amazingly funny!!!

    My niece's husband is a Calvert County Deputy now, but he started in PG county. He told me HORROR stories about working the streets there. He drew his weapon AT LEAST once per shift. Was involved in a FEW shooting incidents.

    Pretty rough gig for cops there. They live one day at a time.


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  14. #14
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    WE SHOULD ASK ALL STATEWIDE CANDIDATES IF THEY WOULD SUPPORT A VIRGINIA FIREARMS FREEDOM ACT!!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  15. #15
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    At the Attorney General debate yesterday, Democrat Steve Shannon equated the Sovereignty movement with states rights:

    Stephen C. Shannon, the Democratic nominee for Virginia attorney general, accused Republican rival Kenneth T. Cuccinelli II on Thursday of planning to fight the federal government in a way reminiscent of the state's past opposition to civil rights legislation.

    At a debate in Richmond, Shannon said that through history, Virginians who opposed federal law supported slavery, shut down schools instead of integrating them, prevented interracial marriage and sterilized mentally retarded people.

    "Our history in Virginia of states' rights is not a flattering picture,'' Shannon said. "When he's talking about states' rights, you have to understand the mistakes we have made in the past."

    Cuccinelli, a conservative, supports limited government and sometimes wears a pin bearing the Revolution-era motto, "Don't Tread on Me," which also were seen at "tea party" protests. He said he has never claimed to want to be a "states' rights attorney general" or someone who would sue the federal government.
    Shannon's hostile attitude would would have a direct influence on anything involving the Tenth amendment, including the Firearms Freedom Act.

    Shannon is saying that the Gadsden Flag is States Rights. That's false, but apparently he doesn't care about facts.



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