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Thread: Illinois Supreme Court says OK to store guns in vehicle consols

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    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...,6859495.story

    Ill. court OKs storing guns in car consoles

    Associated Press

    11:18 a.m. CDT, October 8, 2009

    SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - The Illinois Supreme Court says gun owners can carry weapons in the ordinary storage boxes built into their cars.

    The question was whether a compartment for items like CDs and sunglasses also meets the legal definition of a "case" for carrying guns. Illinois law lets people carry guns in their cars so long as they are stored in a case or other container.

    The court ruled Thursday that a car's storage box is good enough.

    The ruling was prompted by a Peoria case in which a man had been sentenced to 2{ years in prison for carrying two pistols in his car's storage compartment.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Wow, that is really good new. Hopefully that will extend to allow carry in your vehicle.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    Let's see.......Chicago is in Illinois.......Handguns are currently banned in the Chicago city limits.........Will that change because of this (I know, crawl before we jog......I got it, but, I'm hopeful)!!:celebrate

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X
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    Heh, and so it begins in Illinois.

    That wall erected banning firearms is starting to crack.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Just a cautionary note: The decision applies to unloaded guns only!

    The next part to get straightened out is since an out of state resident can not get an FOID card as specified by Illinois law for the exemption is there an equal protection claim?



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    lockman wrote:
    The next part to get straightened out is since an out of state resident can not get an FOID card as specified by Illinois law for the exemption is there an equal protection claim?
    What statute precludes visitors and new residents from bringing guns into illinois?grace period?

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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    lockman wrote:
    The next part to get straightened out is since an out of state resident can not get an FOID card as specified by Illinois law for the exemption is there an equal protection claim?
    What statute precludes visitors and new residents from bringing guns into illinois?grace period?
    .......But, if avisitor (like me) were armed and went tovisit my family in Chicago (Illinois).......

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X

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    Can somene clarify this a little.



    When an unloaded handgun is in the console or glove compartment, does it have to be in side of another case before being placed in the console or glove compartment.



    Or can you simply take an unloaded handgun, and place it in the glovebox?

    if that is the case, Illinois will be considered to have less restrictive laws than in WI!!

    In WI, a firearm must be in a case specifically made to house a firearm before being put into, on, or leaning against a vehicle. The way the law reads, even if you had a gun-safe bolted to the floor of your vehicle, you must still place the gun in another case before placing into a locking safe. Kinda F'ed up, huh?

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    Nutczak wrote:
    In WI, a firearm must be in a case specifically made to house a firearm before being put into, on, or leaning against a vehicle. The way the law reads, even if you had a gun-safe bolted to the floor of your vehicle, you must still place the gun in another case before placing into a locking safe. Kinda F'ed up, huh?
    And even then, if within reach, it is unlawfully concealed.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    deleted - paste contained formatting errors and incomplete.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    (c) This Section does not apply to or affect the transportation or possession of weapons that:
    (i) are broken down in a non‑functioning state; Or

    (ii) are not immediately accessible; or
    (iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,

    firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card.





    Does section (iii) apply to non FOID holders?

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    Lockman - my question is general but important - can a traveler or new resident to Illinois bring a garden variety handgun or long gun thru/to Illionois and keep it at their place of abode even though they do not have an IL FOID card? Presumably there is a grace period befoire they must have an FOID Card, right?

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Mike,
    I wrote to the State Police section in charge of the FOID cards and asked the same questions. I have yet to get a reply.

    According to the FOID site: http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm


    If a non-resident is coming to Illinois to hunt and would like to bring their firearm, how do they legally transport it?

    Non- residents must be legally eligible to possess or acquire firearms and ammunition in their state of residence. It is recommended that, in order to be in compliance with all statutes, non-residents transport all firearms:
    1. Unloaded, and
    2. Enclosed in a case, and
    3. Not immediately accessible or broken down in a nonfunctioning state.
    Is it legal to have ammunition in the case with the firearm?
    Yes, so long as the firearm is unloaded and properly enclosed in a case.

    I have a friend/relative who has a "conceal and carry" permit issued in the state in which they reside. Is the permit recognized in Illinois?

    No. Non-residents are subject to Illinois law, restrictions, and penalties, and should be familiar with them if the non-resident plans to bring a firearm into the state of Illinois.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    (430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83 2)
    Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions.
    (a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm,
    stun gun, or taser within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.

    (2) No person may acquire or possess firearm
    ammunition within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.

    (b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:
    (1) United States Marshals, while engaged in the
    operation of their official duties;

    (2) Members of the Armed Forces of the United States
    or the National Guard, while engaged in the operation of their official duties;

    (3) Federal officials required to carry firearms,
    while engaged in the operation of their official duties;

    (4) Members of bona fide veterans organizations
    which receive firearms directly from the armed forces of the United States, while using the firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition;

    (5) Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with
    valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;

    (6) Those hunters exempt from obtaining a hunting
    license who are required to submit their Firearm Owner's Identification Card when hunting on Department of Natural Resources owned or managed sites;

    (7) Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range
    recognized by the Department of State Police; however, these persons must at all other times and in all other places have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;

    (8) Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or
    display recognized by the Department of State Police; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;

    (9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and
    enclosed in a case;

    (10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or
    registered to possess a firearm in their resident state;


    (11) Unemancipated minors while in the custody and
    immediate control of their parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor if the parent or legal guardian or other person in loco parentis to the minor has a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;

    (12) Color guards of bona fide veterans
    organizations or members of bona fide American Legion bands while using firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition;

    (13) Nonresident hunters whose state of residence
    does not require them to be licensed or registered to possess a firearm and only during hunting season, with valid hunting licenses, while accompanied by, and using a firearm owned by, a person who possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and while in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled, but in no instance upon sites owned or managed by the Department of Natural Resources;

    (14) Resident hunters who are properly authorized to
    hunt and, while accompanied by a person who possesses a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card, hunt in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled;

    (15) A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a
    Firearm Owner's Identification Card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a holder of a Firearm Owner's Identification Card who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization; and

    (16) Competitive shooting athletes whose competition
    firearms are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee, the International Paralympic Committee, the International Shooting Sport Federation, or USA Shooting in connection with such athletes' training for and participation in shooting competitions at the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games and sanctioned test events leading up to the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

    (c) The provisions of this Section regarding the acquisition and possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to law enforcement officials of this or any other jurisdiction, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
    (Source: P.A. 96 7, eff. 4 3 09.)



    The FOID act specifically exempts non-residents under the above conditions. Just don't overstay to the point residency may come into question.

    Now, if a non-resident is exempt from having to obtain an FOID, are the UUW exemptions that require a FOID enforceable against non-residents who by law don't need it and can't get one if they tried? That question I am still awaiting a response.


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    lockman wrote:
    The FOID act specifically exempts non-residents under the above conditions. Just don't overstay to the point residency may come into question.

    Now, if a non-resident is exempt from having to obtain an FOID, are the UUW exemptions that require a FOID enforceable against non-residents who by law don't need it and can't get one if they tried? That question I am still awaiting a response.
    what UUW exemptions require a FOID card

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    720 ILCS 5/24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.

    (a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
    (1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or
    carries any bludgeon, black-jack, slung-shot, sand-club, sand-bag, metal knuckles or other knuckle weapon regardless of its composition, throwing star, or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas; or

    (2) Carries or possesses with intent to use the same
    unlawfully against another, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass, stun gun or taser or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character; or

    (3) Carries on or about his person or in any
    vehicle, a tear gas gun projector or bomb or any object containing noxious liquid gas or substance, other than an object containing a non-lethal noxious liquid gas or substance designed solely for personal defense carried by a person 18 years of age or older; or

    (4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed
    on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:

    (i) are broken down in a non-functioning state;
    or
    (ii) are not immediately accessible; or
    (iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,
    firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;




    Section (iii) My take isa non resident would be fine under theconditions of (i) or (ii), but not (iii).








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    Regular Member Smurfologist's Avatar
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    lockman wrote:
    720 ILCS 5/24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.

    (a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
    (1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or
    carries any bludgeon, black-jack, slung-shot, sand-club, sand-bag, metal knuckles or other knuckle weapon regardless of its composition, throwing star, or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas; or

    (2) Carries or possesses with intent to use the same
    unlawfully against another, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass, stun gun or taser or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character; or

    (3) Carries on or about his person or in any
    vehicle, a tear gas gun projector or bomb or any object containing noxious liquid gas or substance, other than an object containing a non-lethal noxious liquid gas or substance designed solely for personal defense carried by a person 18 years of age or older; or

    (4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed
    on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:

    (i) are broken down in a non-functioning state;
    or
    (ii) are not immediately accessible; or
    (iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,
    firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;




    Section (iii) My take isa non resident would be fine under theconditions of (i) or (ii), but not (iii).






    So that I am clear,all of this goes out the windowif you want to visit your family in Chicago (Illinois) while armed, right?!?

    The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X
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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    i would like some clarification on this as well.

    when i visit family in Springfield i always travel this way....

    (9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and
    enclosed in a case;


    and the weapon in question is always my S&W Mdl 28 so as to avoid any "high cap mag" law that i might be unaware of, and the case is behind the seat of the truck with one latch open and a speedloader on the seat. the console thing would be easier but not by much i suppose.

    i too would like to see what the State boys have to say about it.


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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    YES - A non-resident can have a loaded firearm in places concidered thier dwelling, or private property where they have the owners permission.

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...10&Session=



    The law posted the Illinois website is incomplete and does not reflect all the changes that were made. How some of the changes were made and others not from the same public act I do not know. The above link is the public act passed and was effective immediately





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    great work Lockman - my reading of state by state (and DC) law for the few states with gun registration or posession licensing is that only in New York (for handguns) and DC (for all guns) is there a problem for visitors and new residents to bring garden varierty handguns and long guns into or thru the state/DC and keep them at their place of abode while there.

    Every other state is like IL and appears to give new residents and visitors agrace period to comply with registration/possession licensing. There may be some residual problems in NY City and Chicago and one Chicago suberb, but those restrictions will hopefully be dealt with soon.

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    Broondog wrote:
    the case is behind the seat of the truck with one latch open and a speedloader on the seat.
    That practice is actually a citable offense in WI since. It is a typical citation received by many during deer season up here, many hard cases have 4 latches, if all 4 are not fully latched, chances are you will be cited if caught. So be careful in WI if you ever visit.

    I would also expect an IL stormtrooper to cite for the same thing.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Ok, so I'm still not clear on this from this thread and the ruling although perhaps I misread/read over the answer:
    As a frequent visitor to IL: As an out of state resident who enters IL, if I have my sidearm unloaded and have the sidearm and mag in the closed center console as in the court case (or maybe it needs to be in a locked/lockable compartment - that part of the ruling wasn't clear to me either), am I ok to go under this ruling and IL law? Or is this the matter on which we are still awaiting an answer?

    This is an important question to me as about monthly I am in a situation where I visit a relative in a high crime, fairly dangerous area in MO and then go to directly across the river to IL to visit other relatives. Between the two locations there is no good place to stop, unholster, unload, case & lock my sidearm before crossing into IL without going pretty far out of my way. Other times I have to unexpectedly go to IL from MO (I live near the Mississippi) and don't typically have a firearm case in my vehicle which means that now I have a hassle.

    If I can now simply unload and stow my sidearm in the console or glovebox it would make my life WAY easier.


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    Maybe I can clear it up. Keep in mind IANAL.

    Nothing in the law has changed with this case. The IL SC just stated what everyone involved knew all along - that specifically a center console meets the requirements of the UUW act for the exemption to the general rule that you can't have a gun in your car. The exemption states:

    iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;
    Why the phrase "other container" has confounded LE and SA in the state (at least in a few areas) is amazing to me (note use of sarcasm).

    Note that the way the law is written,non-residents are not eligible for this exception as they cannot get a FOID. NR would have to comply with one of the other 2 exceptions.
    (i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
    (ii) are not immediately accessible;
    So, a NR would need to break down his gun or make it not immediately accessible to avoid tripping up over the UUW act.

    Nothing in this case changes anything in the Wildlife Code which has more stringent requirements for having a gun in your car. Despite what some people have claimed, the WC does not limit the applicability of the requirements to only those engaged in hunting, and people have been charged and convicted over WC gun in car violations who were not hunting.

    You might think that exception(ii) would allow you to keep a loaded gun in the trunk. It really does nothing of the sort. It just means it is might not bea UUW charge. Its still a class B WC violation. 180 days in jail is nothing to sneeze at.

    As for the Chicago issue, IL has something enshrined in its state constitution called home rule. Basically, any home rule entity (Chicago is one) can make up just about any law they want. They can criminalize anything. They can't make it a felony though. So several home rule entities have passed various laws on firearms that are more restictive than the state law. Pre-emption of firearms regulations would be nice, but it will be hard to get. Presumably if you are passing through Chicago in compliance with FOPA rules, you would be OK, but Chicago PD plays by its own rules sometimes.





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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    As applied to the center console anyway:



    Non-residents who have permits or license to possess firearms in their own states are exempt from the FOID act. Since they are exempt any statutory exemption granted an FOID card holder should be valid to a non-resident.



    Since, they have been exempted from needing the FOID and can’t even get one if they wanted too, section 24-1(a)(4)(iii) must apply to non-residents.



    That being said, there has been no case law on that issue that I am aware of that supports that interpretation. The fact that you can be exempted from the requirement to have an FOID and at the same time not be entitled to the very exemptions that the FOID card allows is in itself a contradiction. It certainly is fodder for an equal protection claim.

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    i always thought you could carry a firearm in your glovebox if it locked like in the dash

    and the ammo seperate like in the trunk or visaversa

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