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Thread: OC in East Hartford

  1. #1
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    I sent the following to the Chief of Police in East Hartford today. Lets see what he says.

    Chief Sirois,

    My Name is Francis (Fran) Miele

    I am an East Hartford resident and have been for more than 35 years. I was also very good friends with Detective Dick Tracy when he lived in town but unfortunately I have lost track of him.

    I hold a Connecticut permit to carry pistols and revolvers.

    I am interested in what you believe this permit affords a citizen in East Hartford. You see, no where in the state statutes or regulations does it state that I must carry my weapon concealed. In fact the permit is NOT for concealed carry.

    This seems to be a big question in the state by many these days and many licensed owners are open carrying in other parts of the state without incident..

    Many of us, me included, would like to open carry our weapon and it seems by law that we can. However, I also know that many police officers think that it is unlawful to do so and would arrest an individual for doing so.

    My question to you is; what would you or one of your officers do if they saw me with my pistol or revolver exposed?

    Obviously I don’t want to be arrested! So it is important to me that I know and more importantly that I know that your department knows that by law open carry is legal.

    I have enclosed two links that support the fact that open carry is legal.

    http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?...18126&PM=1

    Last paragraph of this memo from the commissioner of DPS

    http://www.ourrockyhill.com/To%20Jud...0Ambiguity.pdf


    I look forward to hearing from you and thank you for your time!]


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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    fatcat46 wrote:
    I was also very good friends with Detective Dick Tracy
    Was there really a detective named Dick Tracy in real life?
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    When your name is Dick Tracey, what other line of work could you go into? It's like naming your son Geeves. :P

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    gluegun wrote:
    When your name is Dick Tracey, what other line of work could you go into?
    Well there is tracing... Oh never mind.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    A search of East Hartford Town Ordinances produces no restrictions on "firearms" or "weapons" beyond the almost standard discharge prohibition and a prohibition of the display for sale of firearms.

    http://www.ci.east-hartford.ct.us/Pu...ces/Ordinances



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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Do we have a list somewhere of towns that do have town ordinances against firearms?

    Are there any in CT?
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    I had a plan to make such a list, but I have not had the time to go through each and every town available. There are a large number of towns in Connecticut and not all of them post their Town Ordinances on the internet.

    If you wish to look up a specific town: http://www.jud.ct.gov/LawLib/ordinances.htm

    I usually search for "firearm," "weapon," and "hunt." Leaving off the "s" will get you both plural and singular versions of the word.

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    Yes there was!

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Did he wear a cool hat and a trench coat and carry a Thompson SMG? I would be very disappointed if he didn't.



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    I received a phone call from Deputy Chief Thurnauer within 30 min. of sending the email.

    The response was like this:

    The East Hartford Police are very aware that as a permit holder I have the right to open carry my weapon and I probably would not be arrested for that. However, if someone saw me, got all nervous and complained, there would be no guarantee that I wouldn't be arrested for preach of peace.

    We had a very nice conversation. He was very personable and seemed to be on our side of the fence with this issue. However, as he stated you cannot predict what the public might do. You just never know someones motivation. As an example; an anti-gun activist could see you carrying and decide to use that opportunity to make a point at my expense.

    He also stated that the states AG really needs to be involved in this issue. I told him that was already happening and we were waiting to see what happens. I also stated that a big part of the problem is that the public needs to be educated about what our rights are and he thoroughly agreed. He thought that organizations like the NRA could help do that.

    He also stated that he believed that the majority of the LEO's do understand that we can legally open carry and that those that do not are in the minority.

    Well at least I now know what my local PD believes but I'm still not sure I would open carry. At 63 I don't need to be arrested because of some nervous Nelly.

    Carry On!!!!

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Fatcat, great information, thank you.

    This is pretty much my concern as well, although I am young and I don't want anything on my record for life. Someone on the LEO/legislative side of things needs to step up on our behalf and protect us and our rights.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Sounds like a good man, but clearly he didn't want to be "on the record" by giving you a written response. I'm not blaming him, though.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    A good man in some respects, but it would be nice if he would educate all his officers to not issue a breach of peace.

    It is ridiculous to think that you should be held responsible for other people's lack of education or prejudice.

    What if a racist person came across a person they didn't like and just called in that there were a $race man walking around and that they felt threatened? The cops surely wouldn't arrest the man for breach of peace just on that one person's word.

    So why is this different? Seems to me the cops should come down and investigate to make sure you are doing nothing wrong. I have no problem with an officer checking me out to be sure I have a permit and that I am not doing anything unsafe. If I am found to be in compliance with the law, I should be apologized to for the hassle, and the caller should be educated on the law. If that person continues to make a problem of this, [b]they[b] should be arrested for breach of peace.
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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    OC is legal and yes you may get hassled, but as long as you keep your cool and do nothing that could suggest that you breached the peace...they would have no case!

    It is a terrible situation that we are dealing with now...we and the law KNOW that we are just exercising our legal right to OC...if we live in fear of some nervous nellie or an anti trying to make a point then our legal rights are being squashed!!

    We do not need permission from the AG to do something that is NOT AGAINST THE LAW! The law is clear about that and Breach of peace charge is garbage!

    They all need to know that as law abiding citizens we will not sit and wait for someone in Hartford to say its OK. Law makers make laws that state what you CANNOT do!!

    I am not rich and a lawsuit would be costly, but if I am NOT BREAKING ANY LAW then I will win!!! The only thing that we should have to fear of the unknown is from the bad guys and that is why we carry!!!!

    Carry On!

    Lenny

    fatcat GREAT JOB open dialogue with our Police Chiefs are crucial to letting them know that we do know the laws and will not stand for any illegal harassment !!!
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    You might want to share this with the Chief.

    Previously posted by Ed Peruita


    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d29-Alamogordo-police-pay-21000-to-settle-open-carry-lawsuit

    Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit


    Except:
    As reported in the Alamogordo Daily News today,the Alamogordo, NM Police have paid $21,000 to settle with Matthew A. St. John whom police detained for open carrying a holstered handgun at a movie theater.

    This settlement follows a host of settlements by police departments around the country with plaintiffs who were detained by police for openly carrying a holstered handgun, including Pennsylvania, Louisiana, Virginia (see another settlement here), and Georgia. More cases are still pending in . . .

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Lenny, that is all well and good, but who is going to represent us if we do get charged despite doing everything right? Who will pay our legal defense?

    I am all for legal carry, but I am still very hesitant to do it myself.
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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    I just typed up a long patriotic message and hit the wrong button and it disappeared.

    Lucky for the forum I am not retyping all of it..LOL!! OK new reply less heated.

    We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to James Goldberg for stepping up and telling the state that he is not just going to take this. We all know the story. the way he fought back is like no other permit holder ever has. We all need to be that same way.

    Costs could be expensive...however they can be recouped by lawsuit. I am not the type that goes around suing people (I know many that do) however when it comes to not breaking the law we do have to act more like the law abiding patriots that we are and do what we have to do! The CCDL actually has Lawyers as members. They have not been approached to litigate on our behalf or on behalf of members, but if I get arrested I know that my search for an experienced gun rights lawyer would be a very short one.

    This is a personal decision that we have to make, we all have to weigh the good with the bad and decide where we want to be in the future and if we are willing to take the steps needed to let the entire state know that OC is legal.

    With the colder weather coming OC is not that much of an issue since most of the time people will be wearing coats or jackets. But come spring when the coats come off I will continue to OC and be willing to fight for my legal right to do it. (My personal choice) and remember there is strength in numbers as attendees to last nights CCDL meeting saw for themselves.
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
    Join Here: http://www.ccdl.us/membership

  18. #18
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Lenny,
    I agree with fighting the good fight, but I also don't want to be arrested and such. Not all of us have that kind of commitment.

    I do have a good idea for myself and the rest of the people around here in CT who wish to open carry in CT and to further the cause. I am working on that now, and I will be sure to present it here.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    Looking forward to it.
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
    Join Here: http://www.ccdl.us/membership

  20. #20
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    By the way, I joined the CCDL the other day, but I have found there is not much info on the website.

    Where can I get a couple shirts?
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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  21. #21
    Regular Member Lenny Benedetto's Avatar
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    send me a PM
    The Connecticut Citizens Defense League is a non-partisan, grassroots organization devoted to advocating rights affirmed by the Constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Connecticut. We are especially dedicated to protecting the unalienable right of all citizens to keep and bear arms, for the defense of both self and state, through public enlightenment and legislative action.
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    Shirts are availible at the meetings! Next meeting is Nov. 10th I believe.

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    Fatcat,

    Since it seems you have a great open line of communication with your police chief, I have a request.

    Here is the CT statute for "Breach of Peace"

    Sec. 53a-181. Breach of the peace in the second degree: Class B misdemeanor. (a) A person is guilty of breach of the peace in the second degree when, with intent to cause inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, such person: (1) Engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior in a public place; or (2) assaults or strikes another; or (3) threatens to commit any crime against another person or such other person's property; or (4) publicly exhibits, distributes, posts up or advertises any offensive, indecent or abusive matter concerning any person; or (5) in a public place, uses abusive or obscene language or makes an obscene gesture; or (6) creates a public and hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which such person is not licensed or privileged to do. For purposes of this section, "public place" means any area that is used or held out for use by the public whether owned or operated by public or private interests.

    I would be curious to find out if you could, why the police chief believes a "Breach of Peace" charge applies to someone legally open carrying a firearm they are licensed for? There is no intent to cause alarm. There is no threatening. No fighting, no assault, no posting of abusive material, no obscene jestures, and not creating an offensive condition of which one is licensed to do so. I don't see where the charge applies.

    This is where we need an answer. The horse has left the barn on wether or not open carry is legal. We all know it is. We need the Police departments to admit Breach of Peace is not a valid charge to harass someone with who is lawfullygoing about their business.The state statute does not apply to the senario we propose of going about our business in a lawful manner even if someone doesn't like it. What if someone didn't like the tatoos on another person and were offended? Would that be "Breach of Peace?" No. What if someone didn't like the color of car you drive and thought it was offensive? Would that be Breach of Peace? No.

    We need this question answered. It would be of great service if you could keep the line of communication open and propose that question. Thanks for your work so far. It is already of great service to your fellow citizens.

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    There are two ways you are going to get an answer.

    1. The AG is going to come out in a big televised press conference saying "The open carrying of pistols and revolvers in the State of Connecticut is 100% legal and barring any other provocative activity is not grounds for a breach of peace charge"

    I won't hold my breath on a politician looking for higher office doing that.

    2. People with access to a lawyer who is willing to do the footwork on a contingency basis will open carry and risk arrest. If they get arrested they say NOTHING. The arrests should be recorded ideally with video and at least audio and witnessed.

    The police departments unlawfully arresting these people as well as the individuals acting under color of law will be prosecuted and held liable for violating the citizens rights and it will cost them $$ and they will take notice when they start costing their towns damages.

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    I had to dust this off and repost it on my site.

    This is the memorandum of law in support of the motion to dismiss that was presented to the Court in the James Goldberg case back in July of 2007.

    It is still worth reading and may answer some quesitons.

    http://www.ourrockyhill.com/Goldberg...%20Dismiss.htm

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