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Thread: King George domestic / home invasion / murder suicide

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This is a terrible story, the details of which have just been made public. Yet more proof that restraining orders and cell phones will not save your life.

    TFred

    http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2...152009/500740/

    The pertinent part of the article:
    After the separation, Britton said Puckett and Lund called the sheriff's office 22 times with various complaints.

    On Aug. 31, Lund called to report that she felt her life was in danger. The next day she sought and was granted a preliminary protective order barring Puckett from any contact with her directly or through a third party, or with Knight.

    At the time of his death, Puckett awaited a hearing on a charge that he had violated the order on all counts.

    (King George Sheriff's Detective Sgt. Monty) Clift said that in the weeks after Lund moved out, she and Knight had done their best to fortify their house because they feared Puckett.

    They had gotten two-way radios to quickly contact family, if necessary.

    They had installed what Clift described as "heavy gauge barrel-bolt locks" to two of their doors and placed rods in the track of their sliding glass door.

    And they had armed themselves.

    "Within the last month, both Miss Lund and Miss Knight had been given handguns for personal protection," Clift said.

    They had kept them loaded and on their nightstands.

    But they weren't retrieved the night Puckett arrived about 8:30 p.m., heavily armed and in what Britton called a "homicidal rage."

    Instead, the women grabbed phones and hid as Puckett tried to shoot his way inside. Knight grabbed a landline phone and ducked into a closet; Lund took a cell into the adjacent bathroom.

    Puckett fired one shot into the rear door of the house and failed to gain entry. He fired two shotgun blasts into the front door and failed to gain entry. He finally got inside by shooting the glass of the sliding door.

    Puckett arrived "loaded for bear," Britton said. He came armed with a .45 caliber handgun, a 9mm handgun and a shotgun, all loaded and with extra rounds in the pockets of a green coverall he wore.


  2. #2
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    This is ironic:

    Jerry P. Puckett


    Jerry Paul Puckett, 70, of Fairview Beach passed away Saturday, Oct. 3, 2009. Jerry was a native of Buchanan County and a resident of Fairview Beach for 19 years. He was the owner of Puckett Brothers Construction Co.

    Jerry was a member of the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division and a team member of Morgan-McClure's Kodak Film racing team.

    Jerry will be greatly missed by his family as well as his many friends because of his compassion, generosity and humor.

    Jerry is survived by two children, Susan and David Puckett of Fairview Beach; three grandchildren, Wade, Willa and Kadence; four brothers, Larry Lee Puckett of Stafford County, Fred Puckett of Lancaster, Pa., Tommy Puckett of Glade Springs and Danny Puckett of Guyton, Ga.; a sister, Peggy A. Fox of Rosedale; one aunt, Lois Owens of Lakeland, Fla.; and many nieces and nephews. He is also survived by Barney, his beloved four-legged friend and travel companion.

    Jerry was preceded in death by his parents, Lonnie and Dollie Puckett, and a brother, Sammy Puckett.

    Jerry's family will receive friends from 5 to 7 p.m. Saturday, Oct. 10, with a memorial service beginning at 7 p.m., at Nash & Slaw Funeral Home, King George.








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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    More women who were more scared of the guns than the bad guy. I just don't understand it, they had guns there they could have gotten to pretty fast, but didn't? I am sure the ex took a few minutes to get in, enough time for someone who is not handicapped to get to the guns. Heck, they got to the phones...

    Btw if I was in VA and in THAT much fear of one person, I'd be carrying 24/7( ok not in bed, but you know what I mean) and have a backup gun and extra mag for the primary gun, plus at home there would be the mean barking dog to wake me up. Here in MD I'd probably have to carry illegally and take my chances while waiting 4 months to see if the SP decide if I am worthy enough for their gold plated MD carry lisc. I thinkI would just go live in PA instead. It's very close.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    XD40coyote wrote:
    More women who were more scared of the guns than the bad guy. I just don't understand it, they had guns there they could have gotten to pretty fast, but didn't? I am sure the ex took a few minutes to get in, enough time for someone who is not handicapped to get to the guns. Heck, they got to the phones...

    Btw if I was in VA and in THAT much fear of one person, I'd be carrying 24/7 ( ok not in bed, but you know what I mean) and have a backup gun and extra mag for the primary gun, plus at home there would be the mean barking dog to wake me up. Here in MD I'd probably have to carry illegally and take my chances while waiting 4 months to see if the SP decide if I am worthy enough for their gold plated MD carry lisc. I thinkI would just go live in PA instead. It's very close.
    You have identified the problem of just getting a firearm. It is NOT the be-all and end-all magic talisman that can protect you all by itself.

    There has to be the intentional will to use it violently in the face of threatened violence -- not waiting until the violence actually hits you in the middle of your guts or forehead.

    All of us hope and pray that we will not have to use our guns, but that if the time comes we will do so with force, violence, and resolve. We will never know until that time arrives if we will be able to do so.

    Speaking from experience, I can tell you that in my case being able to do so once did not guarantee that I would do so again without hesitation. Fortunately, I hesitated less than "the other guy", so I could be here to tell you.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  5. #5
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    skidmark wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    More women who were more scared of the guns than the bad guy. I just don't understand it, they had guns there they could have gotten to pretty fast, but didn't? I am sure the ex took a few minutes to get in, enough time for someone who is not handicapped to get to the guns. Heck, they got to the phones...

    Btw if I was in VA and in THAT much fear of one person, I'd be carrying 24/7 ( ok not in bed, but you know what I mean) and have a backup gun and extra mag for the primary gun, plus at home there would be the mean barking dog to wake me up. Here in MD I'd probably have to carry illegally and take my chances while waiting 4 months to see if the SP decide if I am worthy enough for their gold plated MD carry lisc. I think¬*I would just go live in PA instead. It's very close.
    You have identified the problem of just getting a firearm.¬* It is NOT the be-all and end-all magic talisman that can protect you all by itself.

    There has to be the intentional will to use it violently in the face of threatened violence -- not waiting until the violence actually hits you in the middle of your guts or forehead.

    All of us hope and pray that we will not have to use our guns, but that if the time comes we will do so with force, violence, and resolve.¬* We will never know until that time arrives if we will be able to do so.

    Speaking from experience, I can tell you that in my case being able to do so once did not guarantee that I would do so again without hesitation.¬* Fortunately, I hesitated less than "the other guy", so I could be here to tell you.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    I agree.

    It isn't always being fast, or even accurate that counts; it's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing; they blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger...I won't.
    - John Bernard Books played by John Wayne in "The Shootist".

    It's my view that many people who avoid learning to defend themselves effectively do so because they are unable to bring themselves to think about the possibility that they might come to harm. They live in a wishful thinking world of their own construction that contains only butterflies, flowers, and happy thoughts.

    And, apropos of the original point of the thread, I've always thought it amusing ("it's not funny, it's sad") that our local Fauquier Co. cable tv access channel has this thing that pops up now and then, a screenfull of text entitled, "When to Call 911". The first bulleted item on the screen says, "To Stop a Crime in Progress."

    Ok, I can see it now: the burglar shows up in my bedroom at 2:00 a.m., and I grab my phone and dial 911 as quickly as I can. Then I tell the burglar, "You have to stop and leave now; I've called 911 to stop the crime in progress."

    yeah, right.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  6. #6
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    More women who were more scared of the guns than the bad guy. I just don't understand it, they had guns there they could have gotten to pretty fast, but didn't? I am sure the ex took a few minutes to get in, enough time for someone who is not handicapped to get to the guns. Heck, they got to the phones...

    Btw if I was in VA and in THAT much fear of one person, I'd be carrying 24/7 ( ok not in bed, but you know what I mean) and have a backup gun and extra mag for the primary gun, plus at home there would be the mean barking dog to wake me up. Here in MD I'd probably have to carry illegally and take my chances while waiting 4 months to see if the SP decide if I am worthy enough for their gold plated MD carry lisc. I thinkI would just go live in PA instead. It's very close.
    You have identified the problem of just getting a firearm. It is NOT the be-all and end-all magic talisman that can protect you all by itself.

    There has to be the intentional will to use it violently in the face of threatened violence -- not waiting until the violence actually hits you in the middle of your guts or forehead.

    All of us hope and pray that we will not have to use our guns, but that if the time comes we will do so with force, violence, and resolve. We will never know until that time arrives if we will be able to do so.

    Speaking from experience, I can tell you that in my case being able to do so once did not guarantee that I would do so again without hesitation. Fortunately, I hesitated less than "the other guy", so I could be here to tell you.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    I could not agree more with your statement I have bolded. I have said and written this very thing so many times because I really get tired of hearing people (men in particular) say things like, "If someone broke into my home I'd blow them away". In reality, they might wind up crapping their pants because unless you have actually been in a situation like this, you just don't know how you're going to react and perform.

    I'm very happy you made it through your encounter and are here to contribute to the forums.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  7. #7
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    More women who were more scared of the guns than the bad guy. I just don't understand it, they had guns there they could have gotten to pretty fast, but didn't? I am sure the ex took a few minutes to get in, enough time for someone who is not handicapped to get to the guns. Heck, they got to the phones...

    Btw if I was in VA and in THAT much fear of one person, I'd be carrying 24/7 ( ok not in bed, but you know what I mean) and have a backup gun and extra mag for the primary gun, plus at home there would be the mean barking dog to wake me up. Here in MD I'd probably have to carry illegally and take my chances while waiting 4 months to see if the SP decide if I am worthy enough for their gold plated MD carry lisc. I thinkI would just go live in PA instead. It's very close.
    You have identified the problem of just getting a firearm. It is NOT the be-all and end-all magic talisman that can protect you all by itself.

    There has to be the intentional will to use it violently in the face of threatened violence -- not waiting until the violence actually hits you in the middle of your guts or forehead.

    All of us hope and pray that we will not have to use our guns, but that if the time comes we will do so with force, violence, and resolve. We will never know until that time arrives if we will be able to do so.

    Speaking from experience, I can tell you that in my case being able to do so once did not guarantee that I would do so again without hesitation. Fortunately, I hesitated less than "the other guy", so I could be here to tell you.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    I agree.

    It isn't always being fast, or even accurate that counts; it's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing; they blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger...I won't.
    - John Bernard Books played by John Wayne in "The Shootist".

    It's my view that many people who avoid learning to defend themselves effectively do so because they are unable to bring themselves to think about the possibility that they might come to harm. They live in a wishful thinking world of their own construction that contains only butterflies, flowers, and happy thoughts.

    And, apropos of the original point of the thread, I've always thought it amusing ("it's not funny, it's sad") that our local Fauquier Co. cable tv access channel has this thing that pops up now and then, a screenfull of text entitled, "When to Call 911". The first bulleted item on the screen says, "To Stop a Crime in Progress."

    Ok, I can see it now: the burglar shows up in my bedroom at 2:00 a.m., and I grab my phone and dial 911 as quickly as I can. Then I tell the burglar, "You have to stop and leave now; I've called 911 to stop the crime in progress."

    yeah, right.
    Most people are good and decent people... in varying degrees, and don't wish to hurt anyone. They cannot and do not think the same as those who would have no compunction with no only stealing from us, but hurting us or worse. Good people just do not think like that. This causes them to hesitate when they are faced with a critical threat to themselves. They can't believe this is actually happening and they just want it to go away... like a bad dream.

    In martial arts, we learned many moves; how to use our hands and feet, elbows and knees, and even our foreheads. We sparred with light contact and even then suffered the occasional bumps and bruises and broken bones. But it's a far trip from training in a dojo to trying to blind an attacker or crush his windpipe... let along shoot him. Teaching someone to carry out extreme violence upon an assailant is the hardest part of the training and I believe that holds true for all types of defensive combat. I just don't know how to change the "normal" mindset of someone into that where they will just react beyond the defensive posture and carry the attack to their assailant.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Interesting, thoughtful points about willingness to use lethal force. I think it almost unquestionably true that one doesn't know for sure until faced with the situation and that still doesn't determine the reaction in a subsequent situation.

    I do think there are life events that increase the likelihood of action, at least for those not brainwashed by the wussification and Oprahfication of society. I can honestly say that mentally and emotionally I am much more prepared and willing to use lethal force now that I am married. I am sure that will increase moreso when we have children.

    As a single guy at home I would consider, "Hey, if someone comes in here to steal the big screen is the mess, aggravation, inconvenience, atty costs and potential PTS worth it to shoot the guy vs just laying low in the bedroom and filing an insurance claim?"

    As a married man I think more along the lines of, "I'm not taking the chance that the BG will harm my wife (children) and the only way to ensure that is to eliminate his ability to be a threat to them. Castle doctrine justifies lethal force if he is in my house illegally and lethal force is what he will face until either he is no longer in the house or is no longer physically able to be a threat to my family."

    I don't mean that in some macho BS "Ug, me protect me woman". There is just a very real difference between protecting stuff or cash and for many even themselves as a single person and protecting your family.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    As a single guy at home I would consider... filing an insurance claim"

    As a married man I think more along the lines of...eliminate his ability to be a threat
    So for all you single guys looking for a reason not to commit...

    "Sorry honey, If I married you I'd end up having to shoot someone!"

  10. #10
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Most people are good and decent people... in varying degrees, and don't wish to hurt anyone. They cannot and do not think the same as those who would have no compunction with no only stealing from us, but hurting us or worse. Good people just do not think like that. This causes them to hesitate when they are faced with a critical threat to themselves. They can't believe this is actually happening and they just want it to go away... like a bad dream.

    In martial arts, we learned many moves; how to use our hands and feet, elbows and knees, and even our foreheads. We sparred with light contact and even then suffered the occasional bumps and bruises and broken bones. But it's a far trip from training in a dojo to trying to blind an attacker or crush his windpipe... let along shoot him. Teaching someone to carry out extreme violence upon an assailant is the hardest part of the training and I believe that holds true for all types of defensive combat. I just don't know how to change the "normal" mindset of someone into that where they will just react beyond the defensive posture and carry the attack to their assailant.

    I think this really does say good about us as a society that we are thus restrained. We can go about our typical day without having the urge to lay someone out on the street. First thing I thought of when I read your last sentence was ODA. He might have some words to shed on this. I think, generally, people are afraid of crossing that line. How do you teach restraint as well as the ability to carry the attack to their assailant?

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    architect wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    As a single guy at home I would consider... filing an insurance claim"

    As a married man I think more along the lines of...eliminate his ability to be a threat
    So for all you single guys looking for a reason not to commit...

    "Sorry honey, If I married you I'd end up having to shoot someone!"
    LOL ... I think my point has been twisted!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  12. #12
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    More women who were more scared of the guns than the bad guy. I just don't understand it, they had guns there they could have gotten to pretty fast, but didn't? I am sure the ex took a few minutes to get in, enough time for someone who is not handicapped to get to the guns. Heck, they got to the phones...

    Btw if I was in VA and in THAT much fear of one person, I'd be carrying 24/7 ( ok not in bed, but you know what I mean) and have a backup gun and extra mag for the primary gun, plus at home there would be the mean barking dog to wake me up. Here in MD I'd probably have to carry illegally and take my chances while waiting 4 months to see if the SP decide if I am worthy enough for their gold plated MD carry lisc. I thinkI would just go live in PA instead. It's very close.
    You have identified the problem of just getting a firearm. It is NOT the be-all and end-all magic talisman that can protect you all by itself.

    There has to be the intentional will to use it violently in the face of threatened violence -- not waiting until the violence actually hits you in the middle of your guts or forehead.

    All of us hope and pray that we will not have to use our guns, but that if the time comes we will do so with force, violence, and resolve. We will never know until that time arrives if we will be able to do so.

    Speaking from experience, I can tell you that in my case being able to do so once did not guarantee that I would do so again without hesitation. Fortunately, I hesitated less than "the other guy", so I could be here to tell you.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Well the 2 victims seemed to be awfully scared of this guy to begin with. I would think that simply freezing up in fear would be more likley. One has to look at both instinctual and learned behaviors. The fear of the guns is learned, hiding or freezing up is instinctual. Using the phone is also learned, so obviously they conquered at least some instinctual reactions to be able to grab and use phones, but could not "unlock" brainwashing, despite the great fear of the violent man. Herein lies the problem- the anti gun and anti self defense forces, from one's own parents to Oprah and the Brady Bunch, as well as police and community leaders saying to call 911 instead of using a gun. I've been around it all my life.

    How/when did I conquer it? Well I guess it was teenage rebellion, because that was the time when I rejected the " don't fight back, you will anger him more if you do that". Hell yes, if I have access to an effective weapon ( including my brain), why not use it? Who cares what the bad guy's childhood was like, plenty of people had bad childhoods but didn't become violent criminals. No liberal guilt stuff here. Perhaps my thoughts on the whole self defense thing were really hammered in when I was 14 and a girl a year older than me who I played with now and then when I was 5-6-7, was murdered by a Baltimore drug dealer at age 15. She failed to use her brain first of all( went alone to buy pot from some guy she just met claiming to be a drug dealer and went to his house), so that point wasdriven home nice and hard.

    So ok, I am probably just a natural born sheepdog. I learned things as early as age 4, and at about 6 I fended off a neighborhood bully who tried to steal my bike. I guessI was protective of my bike as my parents probably couldn't afford to buy me another, plus it was MINE. My parents tried to pussify me by telling me to not fight bullies anymore, and I got punished if I got in trouble at school, so I turned into this goody 2 shoes that let everyone walk all over me. So I guess I just plain rebelled later. Another thing that propelled me was this Japanese woman my mother got to be friends with for a while ( till her bipolar disorder got to be too much for her husband to handle, and he ended up isolating her). She was born and raised in Japan and from an upper class family I believe. She was actually given a knife as a girl and told to kill herself should any man try to violate her. She did overcome this cultural craziness, realizing that using the knife on the attacker instead was more logical!

    I suppose I am just an oddity, an eccentric unique person, a woman who doesn't care for all that womanly stuff, and too freaking intelligent on top of it all. Therefore I can probably not fully understand the mindset of the "other side" any more than they can even begin to comprehend my mindset.

  13. #13
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    XD, I agree with you! The whole Oprah, Brady Campaign wussified society. It all deals with learned knowledge and muscle memory. They've been taught to call 9-1-1, and they probably spent hours on the phone at a time (assumption).

    I've talked to numerous people in my travels in the military with deployments. I've talked to people (REMF's) who've never loaded their weapon "In Combat", and others who've actually fired them. I never had to fire mine, but I raised my weapon and flipped the safety. That in and of it self was enough of a deterrent. Being aviation I never flew without my weapons locked and loaded, and on safe. One second is all it would've taken. Thankfully I didn't have to, but would have to protect myself, my crew, and my aircraft. And I sure as hell wouldn't have any hesitation with my family.

  14. #14
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Hi there, I'm still a newby here, but I've lived almost a half century and had to overcome some pretty intense familial conditioning (raised by hippie flower child ;-) and had a few instances when I was younger that still hurt even today! Dad did his best to offset the worst of it, but he was practically the lone ranger.

    With that said, now that I can carry legally, I have spent a lot of time taking training and range time to be sure that if I ever have to pull the trigger in SD, I will hit my target. I do know that there were two instances in which I could have drawn my weapon and fired and been justified under the Castle Doctrine. I found myself resolving the situation in a different manner that allowed all of us to walk away unharmed. The ONLY reason that I could do this was because I knew that if what I tried didn't work, I still had the option of the use of deadly force.

    As a small stature woman, taking a chance on talking my way outof something, or waiting for LEO to answer 9-1-1 call becomes less dangerous to me when I am armed.

    Another thing that I have noticed is how thoughtlessly larger people will physically intimidate a smaller stature woman. I have become somewhat assertive and had a LEO friend tell me that the consensus was that I was too assertive for my own good! When I mentioned this to my SDinstructor, his response was, "You be just as AGGRESSIVE as you have to to get yourself safe!"

    I have come to the conclusion that I am the only one who is responsible for my safety and waiting for LEO to answer 9-1-1 could be too late.

    cheers - okboomer
    cheers - okboomer
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    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

  15. #15
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    okboomer wrote:
    Hi there, I'm still a newby here, but I've lived almost a half century and had to overcome some pretty intense familial conditioning (raised by hippie flower child ;-) and had a few instances when I was younger that still hurt even today! Dad did his best to offset the worst of it, but he was practically the lone ranger.

    With that said, now that I can carry legally, I have spent a lot of time taking training and range time to be sure that if I ever have to pull the trigger in SD, I will hit my target. I do know that there were two instances in which I could have drawn my weapon and fired and been justified under the Castle Doctrine. I found myself resolving the situation in a different manner that allowed all of us to walk away unharmed. The ONLY reason that I could do this was because I knew that if what I tried didn't work, I still had the option of the use of deadly force.

    As a small stature woman, taking a chance on talking my way outof something, or waiting for LEO to answer 9-1-1 call becomes less dangerous to me when I am armed.

    Another thing that I have noticed is how thoughtlessly larger people will physically intimidate a smaller stature woman. I have become somewhat assertive and had a LEO friend tell me that the consensus was that I was too assertive for my own good! When I mentioned this to my SDinstructor, his response was, "You be just as AGGRESSIVE as you have to to get yourself safe!"

    I have come to the conclusion that I am the only one who is responsible for my safety and waiting for LEO to answer 9-1-1 could be too late.

    cheers - okboomer
    Welcome Boomer! That's quite a story, a self described "Flower Child" turned Gun Owner/ Open Carry Gun Owner! I'm glad you crossed the liberal tracks and learned with proper instruction how to defend yourself. Once again welcome to OCDO!

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