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Thread: Questions...

  1. #1
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    Hey everybody! Glad to be part of such a friendly community. Just had a couple of quick questions since I'm new to this whole thing. First off, I'm 19 and can legally own a handgun, but I don't. My father has a nice .38 special, would it be legal for me to carry his registered weapon openly and unloaded? do I need written permission? Also, I'm at school right now, so it's out of the question anyways, but during Christmas time I would love to open carry with someone who has done it before, is there anyone living in the San Bernardino County area that would be willing to have a cup of coffee on me for my first time open carrying?

    Thanks for the information and the website! What you guys are doing is great! I respect you all.

    Thanks

    --Chris

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
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    Welcome Chris. Yes it's legal to carry your fathers gun. If something is not illegal it is by definition legal. Because you are of age it's no different than borrowing your fathers car for the day.

    May I suggest you "sterile carry", meaning you don't have any identification on your person. Just keep it in your car, if you change your mind you can always go get it.

    Good Luck.

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    ok, one more question in relation to long guns and shotguns...It would appear that I can go about my normal business with a long gun or a shotgun as long as it is unloaded. Does this mean I can go in a supermarket holding a rifle? That seems crazy and stupid but is it against the law?

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    crjenkins wrote:
    ok, one more question in relation to long guns and shotguns...It would appear that I can go about my normal business with a long gun or a shotgun as long as it is unloaded. Does this mean I can go in a supermarket holding a rifle? That seems crazy and stupid but is it against the law?
    It would be best to have it slung over your shoulder so you aren't accused of brandishing, but it would be legal as far as I'm aware - for either the 5 seconds before the manager told you to leave or be charged with trespass, or the 2 minutes it takes for the police to show up.

    Pistols are best for carry because the public either won't notice it's there, or will assume you're law enforcement. The people who don't fall into either of those categories will still call the police.

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    How do you guys operate in the winter with jackets and such?

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    Hey Jason, welcome to the community.

    For starters, read all the documentation on http://californiaopencarry.org

    Second, watch the Open Carry in California training videos (insert shameless plug here)

    http://caopencarry.blogspot.com/2009...oc-videos.html

    Third, about rifle carry... Just carry over your shoulder on a sling. Slung behind the back is OK, just don't be holding the rifle/shotgun with both hands or anything. However, I don't entirely recommend rifle carry (though it is cool) and if you do any rifle carry (especially your first time) I really recommend bringing your girlfriend (or friend that is a girl) with you (it softens up the image). I also wouldn't do a store. Perhaps a walk-up taco shop or an ice cream store.

    Fourth, winter clothing isn't a real big issue here in SoCal. Just wear a tight fitting sweater or a jacket with a flap to go over and behind your firearm (Like what cops have) and you are good to go. Another option is a thigh but that pretty much is a personal preference thing, not to mention that one is probably not made for your handgun.



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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    crjenkins wrote:
    How do you guys operate in the winter with jackets and such?
    Winter? Jackets?? What are these things you speak of? I wear t-shirts, shorts, and shoes/sandals all year long. :P

    Welcome to the forum! I'm in San Berdoo and could take you open carrying sometime if you like. There is a small group of us in the IE that do informal outings together.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

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    I'm not sure if there's an exemption for interfamilial lending, but generally the lendee is required to possess a current Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) in order for the lending to be legal.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    I'm not sure if there's an exemption for interfamilial lending, but generally the lendee is required to possess a current Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) in order for the lending to be legal.
    Here's the citation from the California penal code:


    12800. It is the intent of the Legislature in enacting this article
    to require that persons who obtain handguns have a basic familiarity
    with those firearms, including, but not limited to, the safe
    handling and storage of those firearms. It is not the intent of the
    Legislature to require a handgun safety certificate for the mere
    possession of a firearm.

    12801.

    (b) No person shall do either of the following:
    (1) Purchase or receive any handgun, except an antique firearm, as
    defined in paragraph (16) of subsection (a) of Section 921 of Title
    18 of the United States Code, without a valid handgun safety
    certificate.
    (2) Sell, deliver, loan, or transfer any handgun, except an
    antique firearm, as defined in paragraph (16) of subsection (a) of
    Section 921 of Title 18 of the United States Code, to any person who
    does not have a valid handgun safety certificate.
    (c) Any person who violates subdivision (b) is guilty of a
    misdemeanor.
    I am a little confused with the seemingly conflicting language at the end of section 12800. Maybe someone could shed some light. Perhaps it was a grandfather clause to cover those already in possession of a handgun at the time the law was enacted. Not totally sure. Or maybe has to do with renting a handgun at a range.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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    edit!
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

  11. #11
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    An HSC is not required to posses your handgun. If the handgun is lent to you and the lender is not in the immediate area then an HSC is required for a loan up to thirty days.

    Yes, an HSC is required for an interfamilial transfer. Possession of the HSC is not required, but if you are borrowing the handgun of another I would keep it handy in case issues arise.

  12. #12
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    If I remember correctly the HSC can be skipped if you take the pc839 class. Please correct this if I am wrong.

  13. #13
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    I am not advocating for breaking the law here, but that HSC possession bullcrap is unenforceable. You are not legally required to present it and it is not a valid form of identification and there is no punishment associated with lending a firearm to someone who does not have the HSC.



    Just my .02

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    SteveO wrote:
    If I remember correctly the HSC can be skipped if you take the pc839 class. Please correct this if I am wrong.
    PC 832 exempts you from needing an HSC when purchasing a handgun.

    It does not exempt you however when borrowing a handgun from another person.

    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    there is no punishment associated with lending a firearm to someone who does not have the HSC.
    Actually there is if you leave the presence of the person you are loaning it to.

    12072 (d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's
    license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the
    transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that
    firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

    (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the
    infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known
    to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30
    days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing
    January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid
    handgun safety certificate.
    (2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of
    Section 12801 shall not apply to the loan of a firearm where all of
    the following conditions exist:
    (A) The person loaning the firearm is at all times within the
    presence of the person being loaned the firearm.
    (B) The loan is for a lawful purpose.
    (C) The loan does not exceed three days in duration.
    (D) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by
    state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or
    purchasing a firearm.
    (E) The person loaning the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
    (F) The person being loaned the firearm is 18 years of age or
    older.
    (3) If any of the following circumstances apply, a violation of
    this section shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not
    exceeding one year or in the state prison, or by a fine not to exceed
    one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and
    imprisonment
    .
    (E) A violation of subdivision (d) involving a pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
    You have two basic ways a lending someone a handgun in CA.

    1. The loanee does not require an HSC but you must stay within the immediate presence at all times, and this type of loan is only valid for three days.

    2. The loanee has an HSC at which point they can take complete control of the handgun without the loaner being present for up to, but not exceeding, 30 days.

    If you lend someone a handgun who does not have an HSC and you leave the immediate area or another A-F requirement is not met you are in violation of 12072(d).

    A violation of that section is up to one year in jail, a 1,000 fine or both.

  15. #15
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    lorax3 wrote:
    SteveO wrote:
    If I remember correctly the HSC can be skipped if you take the pc839 class. Please correct this if I am wrong.
    PC 832 exempts you from needing an HSC when purchasing a handgun.

    It does not exempt you however when borrowing a handgun from another person.

    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    there is no punishment associated with lending a firearm to someone who does not have the HSC.
    Actually there is if you leave the presence of the person you are loaning it to.

    12072 (d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's
    license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the
    transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that
    firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

    (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the
    infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known
    to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30
    days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing
    January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid
    handgun safety certificate.
    (2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of
    Section 12801 shall not apply to the loan of a firearm where all of
    the following conditions exist:
    (A) The person loaning the firearm is at all times within the
    presence of the person being loaned the firearm.
    (B) The loan is for a lawful purpose.
    (C) The loan does not exceed three days in duration.
    (D) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by
    state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or
    purchasing a firearm.
    (E) The person loaning the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
    (F) The person being loaned the firearm is 18 years of age or
    older.
    (3) If any of the following circumstances apply, a violation of
    this section shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not
    exceeding one year or in the state prison, or by a fine not to exceed
    one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and
    imprisonment
    .
    (E) A violation of subdivision (d) involving a pistol, revolver,
    or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
    You have two basic ways a lending someone a handgun in CA.

    1. The loanee does not require an HSC but you must stay within the immediate presence at all times, and this type of loan is only valid for three days.

    2. The loanee has an HSC at which point they can take complete control of the handgun without the loaner being present for up to, but not exceeding, 30 days.

    If you lend someone a handgun who does not have an HSC and you leave the immediate area or another A-F requirement is not met you are in violation of 12072(d).

    A violation of that section is up to one year in jail, a 1,000 fine or both.
    OK, so lets break it down...

    1) One can't prove whether or not someone has an HSC or not. There isn't a state database and unless you are dumb enough to tell a cop otherwise, nothing will come of it.

    2) If you are the owner and are nearby then there are simply no issues. However, you STILL DONT HAVE TO TALK TO COPS OR TELL THEM ANYTHING!!!!!

    3) There is no way to prove the duration of a loan. Again, you DON'T HAVE TO TELL COPS ANYTHING!

    4) (D) is pretty self-explanatory.

    5) (E) and (F) solve a lot of problems.

    I stand corrected on the fact that there is a punishment for the loaning part. I will, however, maintain that the law is unenforceable.

  16. #16
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    crjenkins wrote:
    Hey everybody! Glad to be part of such a friendly community. Just had a couple of quick questions since I'm new to this whole thing. First off, I'm 19 and can legally own a handgun, but I don't. My father has a nice .38 special, would it be legal for me to carry his registered weapon openly and unloaded? do I need written permission? Also, I'm at school right now, so it's out of the question anyways, but during Christmas time I would love to open carry with someone who has done it before, is there anyone living in the San Bernardino County area that would be willing to have a cup of coffee on me for my first time open carrying?

    Thanks for the information and the website! What you guys are doing is great! I respect you all.

    Thanks

    --Chris
    Welcome to the forums crjenkins!

    We are having an OC meet in Redlands this Thursday. Check out this thread.

    Hope to see you there.

  17. #17
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    You are free to show up to any UOC meet unarmed, we would love to have you any way you come. Come hang out, get to know us, and help you get comfortable with open carry before the first time you do it.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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