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Thread: Somerset Collection

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    I talked to a senior security guard at Somerset Collection to get an idea of their take on OC. He said there isn'ta specific policy against it and intitially said it wouldn't be a problem. Then the falsities started. He said a complaint would most likely be called in so he would have to talk to the offender to see if he/she was licensed to carry. I told him a CPL wasn't needed to OC in Michigan and he gave he a strange look. Then he said OC may be considered brandishing to which I corrected him on what brandishing truly is. All in all it sounds like a packet or well placed email may be in order to inform mall management of the laws concernig OC andfind out what their policies are. It is a Forbes mall, not Taubman(Partridge Creek, Lakeside ect.) and I haven't seen anything in the forumswith respect to them.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    And it is private property so they can decide to restrict it... However I doubt Security makes the rules... they just enforce them.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    well... what are we waiting for?

    Lets go!

    Its a nice mall too, lots of neat stuff to be had. The only place I know of around here that has a 'Sharper Image'...

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    I OC'd there a few weeks back. No issues.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    One more point it is usually better not to ask for permission... just do it as long as you know you are all legal!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Sharper Image is an online only retailer now. They closed all their stores last year after going bankrupt. Still a great mall though. You'd think criminals wouldn't want to rob stores with customers OC'ing so malls would like us out in force.

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    One more point it is usually better not to ask for permission... just do it as long as you know you are all legal!
    I agree. Just do what you do normally... don't call attention to any matter but be prepared to deal with attention if it calls on you.

    I'm always armed and I live close to Somerset. Naturally, I patronize the place from time to time. Nary an issue. But I go in, do my business, and leave. I don't interact with anyone other than what's necessary to conduct my business. I couldn't tell you how many times I've OC'd there... but I was just there a few weeks ago during a peak shopping time. Entered through Macy's, went into the main concourse, and up to the third floor. Handled my business at a store, then retraced my steps. Aside from the girl in the store, I don't think anyone noticed. And even the girl in the store had nothing to say about it... I saw her look, but nothing was said. She treated me, presumably, just like any other patron.

    I'd be disappointed to see Somerset go out of their way to ban firearms because they feel that people are going out of their way to make a point on their premises. I think we all need to remember that we are guests on other people's property and if we want to be treated seriously and with respect, that we ought not to turn their property into demonstration grounds.

    If you have business on the property... handle it. But please folks... let's not approach them with 20 questions and then turn out with 15 armed people just to make a point. I think most of us agree that our goal with OC is to make it natural... normal... and to diminish the shock value of it. Turning every daily activity into a demonstration does just the opposite, I believe. It causes people to entrench themselves in their position. One person shopping... not such a big deal. If they have something to say about it, then let the one person handle it. But 15 people rolling up on the property just to walk around... I'm not sure what I'd call it, but I don't know if I agree with it.

    I guess what I'm saying is don't start a fight until you know you have an enemy. And don't make enemies out of people until they've gone out of their way to press upon you. In my humble experience, Somerset is not any threat. If they WERE to ever stop me, ask me to leave, call the police, etc, etc... at that point I would rethink whether or not I'd do business there. Maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. I suppose it depends on how they handled the situation. I may concede to simply conceal, if it were convenient. I may choose to only shop there during the winter when concealing is convenient. But it's not like I'd walk in with a jacket then take it off simply to show off what I'm carrying.

    I'm not accusing anyone of this, but just cautoning as a general concern: Please remember that when you OC, your actions are going to affect us all. Most of us just want to live in a world where it's okay to be armed... a word where we don't have to be ashamed of our rights or hide who we are. We don't have to turn every day errands into an OC demonstration. If you're OCing out of convenience... so be it. Be normal and do things as you would normally. But I cringe sometimes when I think of folks out there potentially taking it to the next level by going out of their way to make their openly carried pistol obvious. It smacks of bad taste and paints the entire movement in a somewhat negative image.

    Just food for thought, folks. I'm not calling anyone out... just more or less letting my thoughts run free.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Good post Veritas and good points!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    Veritas wrote:
    ...Most of us just want to live in a world where it's okay to be armed... a word where we don't have to be ashamed of our rights or hide who we are. We don't have to turn every day errands into an OC demonstration...
    The golden egg.
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    I agree with everything Veritas said. I only thought to ask the question of the security guard because I work at one of the stores at the mall and wouldn't want to put my job in jeopardy if a LEO became involved while I was OCing on my day off.

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    scot623 wrote:
    I agree with everything Veritas said. I only thought to ask the question of the security guard because I work at one of the stores at the mall and wouldn't want to put my job in jeopardy if a LEO became involved while I was OCing on my day off.
    Almost always, folks new to OC'ing feel a bit nervous about it. But with time and more experience OC'ing, you probably will experience the shift to itfeelingvery natural and younot even thinking about it very much as you go about your public business armed. At that point, you won't feel the need to get LEO opinions on OC or fear how it might affect your employment when you do it while off-duty. You'll just do it as naturally and without question as anything else that is completely legal and proper. Good luck on getting there quickly!
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I coined the phrase many months ago, "Snipe Open Carry".

    In, out, no fuss no muss. Walk in get your crap (Veritas says it nicely "doing business") and get out.

    Hopefully many people notice and possibly say to themselves "Wow, a man with a gun and he was nice and friendly and didn't shoot anyone".

    It plants a seed for later. When they hear about an OC picnic they say...."no big deal". They will have already had an interaction with an OCer and it was pleasant. They will spread the word for a long time whenever the subject comes up.

    Remember, in Michigan most people are not anti-gun. Michigan has forever been a huge hunting and shooting sports state. Most people just don't know about OC.Or they believe the lies that have been fed to them for years.

    I cringe every time I hear and encounter where the first words out of the OCer mouth are "Because it's legal", "Because I can" even "Sure I can, open carry's legal in Michigan".

    Put yourself in the other persons shoes. I will agree that sometimes these types of responses are very much appropriate (like with an anti that you're not going to sway anyway) but should be the exception not the rule and should only be said with a huge smile.

    When confronted I immediately try to be more friendly. I try to gently sway the person and point out the logic of OC. Hasn't failed me yet.

    YMMV

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    I may just limit my OC to outside my work area. Even though I work at one of the anchor stores and I may be stopped in the general mall area, I'm sure word of any LEO encounter would travel back to my LP department. Never forget that Michigan is an "at will" employment state so your employer does not need a "reason" to terminate you. In this economy, it's probably more prudent to not give your employer a "reason".

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    My husband and I attempted to OC at Somerset today. It was no more than 5 minutes before we were approached by 2 security guards who informed us that if we didn't have permits we would need to take our weapons out to our car. I guess we'll be finding somewhere else to do our shopping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeptah View Post
    My husband and I attempted to OC at Somerset today. It was no more than 5 minutes before we were approached by 2 security guards who informed us that if we didn't have permits we would need to take our weapons out to our car. I guess we'll be finding somewhere else to do our shopping.
    Welcome to OCDO Peeptah.

    How on earth did you find this nearly 5 year old thread?
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    WELCOME TO OCDO! The only mall that I know of in the LP of MI that does not prohibit carry is Great Lakes crossing. Even there, some places still do (Toby Keiths' Bar/Restaurant). Bass Pro there was also a friend to OCers and allowed a MI OC group(s) to have seminar's there, plus they have a shooting range there on the second floor . It's been a few years since I was there, but when I was OC was a non issue for me.

    Here is a thread from the way back time machine about Toby HATE this bar (OCers).
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...licy-non-story
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 05-18-2014 at 11:57 PM. Reason: link
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    I agree with everything Veritas said. I only thought to ask the question of the security guard because I work at one of the stores at the mall and wouldn't want to put my job in jeopardy if a LEO became involved while I was OCing on my day off.
    Just be careful, many employers have policies that state you cannot posses a firearm anywhere on the premise, including the parking lot. I'm not sure how far they would take this as it's a mall, but I definitely would not go anywhere near the store you work at.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Just be careful, many employers have policies that state you cannot posses a firearm anywhere on the premise, including the parking lot. I'm not sure how far they would take this as it's a mall, but I definitely would not go anywhere near the store you work at.
    you're replying to one of the founding members of michigan open carry in a thread started in 2009... he knows what's up. just FYI
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 05-21-2014 at 03:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeptah View Post
    My husband and I attempted to OC at Somerset today. It was no more than 5 minutes before we were approached by 2 security guards who informed us that if we didn't have permits we would need to take our weapons out to our car. I guess we'll be finding somewhere else to do our shopping.
    a couple years ago i open carried in somerset for about an hour before a guard told me i couldn't open carry there. they have no problem with CC, but i told them that i would not be concealing and i would be taking my business elsewhere
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    you're replying to one of the founding members of michigan open carry in a thread started in 2009... he knows what's up. just FYI
    Good call out..My bad I missed that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    WELCOME TO OCDO! The only mall that I know of in the LP of MI that does not prohibit carry is Great Lakes crossing.
    I've never been kicked out of Oakland mall, but then I don't know that they are explicitly OC friendly either.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I've never been kicked out of Oakland mall, but then I don't know that they are explicitly OC friendly either.
    i do know people have been asked to leave oakland mall for open carrying. if i'm not mistaken, they have one of those well-hidden codes of conduct that prohibit weapons. but of course the best way is to go about your business until asked to leave. i have open carried in the sears at oakland mall, but not in the rest of the mall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i do know people have been asked to leave oakland mall for open carrying. if i'm not mistaken, they have one of those well-hidden codes of conduct that prohibit weapons. but of course the best way is to go about your business until asked to leave. i have open carried in the sears at oakland mall, but not in the rest of the mall.
    afaik Oakland Mall does not allow OC but I have never been in the main part of the mall. I have OC'd at the Kohls there numerous times without issues/questions.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Evil Creamsicle and I have OC'd in the entire thing many times by ourselves, and several times when there together, including many times walking past security guards that saw us. I would definitely discontinue the practice if told by an employee or shown documented proof that they don't want us there, but as of yet I have not seen that.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    apologies for bumping an old thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Evil Creamsicle and I have OC'd in the entire thing many times by ourselves, and several times when there together, including many times walking past security guards that saw us. I would definitely discontinue the practice if told by an employee or shown documented proof that they don't want us there, but as of yet I have not seen that.
    I went here the other day to do some walking and didn't see a sign at the main entrance I walked in to but after about a half hour (appendix owb but had a coat on) noticed their sign of rules at the far east entrance on the south side and the first rule was no weapons of any kind.
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