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Thread: Curmudgeon Al Campbell, 'Gun Law Surprise - Updated', GermantownNow.com

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    http://www.germantownnow.com/blogs/c.../64355037.html

    By Al Campbell
    Oct. 15, 2009

    Among the biggest surprises yesterday was the position adopted by the Milwaukee Police Chief and District Attorney John Chisholm. They made the argument for Wisconsin moving to a concealed carry status opining that this would help them in the fight against those who carry weapons today without regard to the law.

    The theory espoused was that, if the law were to be changed so that concealed carry was okay, they'd have the ability to assure that those with guns were qualified and without records as felons. They would seek the change to make unauthorized carrying of a weapon a felony. This combination would, from their perspectives, give them a better toolset with which to go after the thugs who are ... using guns on the streets of Milwaukee virtually every day of the year.

    This is a 180 degree change in direction and could well signal the change that many have sought for years. Wisconsin is one of the last two states in the union that continues to forbid citizens from carrying concealed weapons. The state Attorney General came out months ago saying that open carry was okay according to his interpretation of the state constitution and court cases, although this has been met with varying degrees of enforcement by law enforcement agencies in the state since it can be disconcerting for a citizen to see another openly carrying a gun and since there is no way for police officers to know with what they may be confronted.

    I have favored a concealed carry law for Wisconsin for a long time. It makes sense to me that those who carry a weapon be properly vetted and trained. It makes sense to me that with "good guys" carrying, the "bad guys" will think two or more times about using a gun to commit a crime. It makes sense to me that this would also make our state safer from criminals who have little fear today. The worst thing for them today is risking harm from another criminal with a gun as is demonstrated from time to time in Milwaukee. 48 other states have made this work; Wisconsin can make it work, too.

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    Mandatory Training, Registration, Permits and Fees.

    We need to vote out any legislator who is in favor of this, period.

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Mandatory Training, Registration, Permits and Fees. We need to vote out any legislator who is in favor of this, period.
    Why give others, here on OpenCarry.org, a pass? Remember, they or their body (swinging members dangle to the left and right with their principal body) give these reasonable regulators financial, political and immoral support.

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    hmm, do you really want to go the same way as Texas?

    I think not.

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    Very true Doug, you have an excellent point and until members here decide what they really want it is very hard to move forward with any strength.

    Me personally, I want a no compromise CCW/OCW non permitted system.

    Like I said before, VT and AK did it and so can we. Sure it is not going to happen over night but with all of the negativity among members here, I think it is a pretty good indication of just how hard of a battle we will have to fight in order to win the war.

    We have to start some where and this organization is as good as any, provide we all stand together.

    I think the best thing we could do is get together with some members from VT/AK and find out just how they got where they are today.

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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    hmm, do you really want to go the same way as Texas?

    I think not.
    Give us an example of what you are talking about here.

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    I know that AK followed VT. I think VT may have enjoyed their gun laws ab initio.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    I know that AK followed VT. I think VT may have enjoyed their gun laws ab initio.
    Yup, I think Vermont's tradition dates back to around 1793--- which was probably similar to all that of all the other states in that era. One by one, the rest dropped the ball at some subsequent point in their history-- 130+ years ago in Wisconsin.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    While a Vermont style system of unregulated carry is a nice pipe dream, the fact is that it will never happen in Wisconsin and almost everyone realizes that. Our efforts are far better spent going after a good carry law that is actually possible to achieve. The MN law is an excellent model to follow. It allows for open or concealed carry, modest training requirements and the ability to carry just about anywhere including the state capitol. This is the position I regularly support and discuss with my legislators when I visit them. I realize some are unwilling to compromise in any regard on this issue. You are only impeding progress by your actions in my opinion.
    Jim Burgess
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    comp45acp wrote:
    While a Vermont style system of unregulated carry is a nice pipe dream, the fact is that it will never happen in Wisconsin and almost everyone realizes that. Our efforts are far better spent going after a good carry law that is actually possible to achieve. The MN law is an excellent model to follow. It allows for open or concealed carry, modest training requirements and the ability to carry just about anywhere including the state capitol. This is the position I regularly support and discuss with my legislators when I visit them. I realize some are unwilling to compromise in any regard on this issue. You are only impeding progress by your actions in my opinion.
    It is that kind of thinking that will only slow the progress on the road to success.
    Training? It is your right to vote, do you get training for that?
    How about your right to free speech, do you get training for that?
    You do not have to be trained, registered, permitted or pay a fee to exercise your rights. Period!

    Being permitted to exercise your rights makes them no more then a privilege.

    I agree that it should be a felony if you are found concealing or in possession of a fire arm during the commission of a crime.

    And I agree that the current laws in this state should be changed to read, "During the commission of a crime." (I.E....the GFSZ, Transportation Laws..etc)

    No felons allowed in a business open solely for the purpose of selling fire arms.

    Otherwise,

    No compromise, EVER!

    Carry On!
    Molon Labe!

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Training? It is your right to vote, do you get training for that?
    How about your right to free speech, do you get training for that?
    Hell yeah!

    You are trained to your "right" to vote in grubbermint skrules. That some believe that there is a "right" to vote is sufficient proof of lack of critical reading/thinking skills.

    You are trained to your First Amendment right by the lamestream media that also prates of the "right" to vote and abort.

    Read and understand The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt.

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    Just another thought, years ago when DNR was created it was decided that you need to buy a license to fish and hunt. Now it is no longer a right but a privilege.

    With that in mind they went from the fishing and hunting license to, you had to buy a trout stamp and a pheasant stamp, turkey permit, bear permit, etc, etc.

    Guess what they will do for fire arms permits. How about a special stamp to carry a S&W for an added fee? or a Kimber stamp? for an added fee of course.

    Another fee for a stamp to carry a semi auto as opposed to a wheel gun.

    Get it?

    No Compromise, EVER!

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    Training? It is your right to vote, do you get training for that?
    How about your right to free speech, do you get training for that?
    Hell yeah!

    You are trained to your "right" to vote in grubbermint skrules. That some believe that there is a "right" to vote is sufficient proof of lack of critical reading/thinking skills.

    You are trained to your First Amendment right by the lamestream media that also prates of the "right" to vote and abort.

    Read and understand The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt.
    If you call that training. I recommend the free training from Doug Huffman.

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    If we continue to compromise, we will compromise ourselves and the future out of guns altogether.

    Our forefathers foresaw this and put the Constitution directly in the path of compromise.

    It is foolhardy to believe that if you give a little they will. They have nothing to give we have everything to lose.

    Buck up, your going to have to grow a bigger set, 'cause your going to need them.

    If every gun owner came together in a single front, they, including asinine public servants, would have no choice but to carry out the will of the public.

    Get off the sidelines and speak, write, do.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

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    Among the biggest surprises yesterday was the position adopted by the Milwaukee Police Chief and District Attorney John Chisholm. They made the argument for Wisconsin moving to a concealed carry status opining that this would help them in the fight against those who carry weapons today without regard to the law.

    How would licensed concealed carry help the police go after criminals that illegally carry
    The theory espoused was that, if the law were to be changed so that concealed carry was okay, they'd have the ability to assure that those with guns were qualified and without records as felons.

    Could someone please explain to me how making law abiding citizens jump through government regulated hoops by requiring permits and training will remove guns from criminals possession?
    This stinks of mandatory gun registration, and no carry of any sort without a govt. mandated permission slip
    I have favored a concealed carry law for Wisconsin for a long time. It makes sense to me that those who carry a weapon be properly vetted and trained.
    And then we still have untrained criminals that are already prohibited from owning firearms that stillfirearms in their possession.
    Whatcha gonna do about that Al? Is your permit system going to fix that?

    Please explain to me how making it more difficult for a legal citizen to exercise his 2A rights by requiring money being paid out, training, and licensing is going to magically make all the criminals that already own guns illegally give up there firearms.



    I opine that by making it more difficult for someone to defend themselves by requiring costly mandatory training, and licensing, the criminals will take full advantage of the situation and end up killing more innocents than they already are.

    Screw you Al.right along withFlynn, Barrett, doyle and the rest of you anti-constitutional bastards, Y'all can all lick my sack after a fullday of horseback riding in July!

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    Nutczak wrote:
    Screw you Al.right along withFlynn, Barrett, doyle and the rest of you anti-constitutional bastards, Y'all can all lick my sack after a fullday of horseback riding in July!
    Don't forget our "trainers' that are corespondents here. That is who encourages this ignorant tyranny.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    Screw you Al.right along withFlynn, Barrett, doyle and the rest of you anti-constitutional bastards, Y'all can all lick my sack after a fullday of horseback riding in July!
    Don't forget our "trainers' that are corespondents here. That is who encourages this ignorant tyranny.
    +100

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    Here's the question. I'm all for no-compromise. I don't think we should have to give anything up in order to get a CCW bill passed.

    But are people here going to be against a bill unless it's vermont-style carry? I understand that nature of a right vs. a privilege and asking for permission and all of that. I'm totally with you.

    But can we advance one foot at a time. Our legs are not long enough to take steps in miles.

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    SAK wrote:
    ... I'm all for no-compromise. ... But ...
    Compromise is failure on the installment plan, especially against such an intractable enemy as invincible ignorance.

    We in Wisconsin already enjoy the right to carry a weapon openly without state license.

    Permitted carry allows the camel's nose in the too big tent that is already filled to bursting with dishonest brokers of our Rights, leaving no room for mere law abiding citizens. Shall I list the brokers? NRA, NRA affiliates, NRA clients, ... shall I go on?

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth.

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    SAK wrote:
    Here's the question. I'm all for no-compromise. I don't think we should have to give anything up in order to get a CCW bill passed.

    But are people here going to be against a bill unless it's vermont-style carry? I understand that nature of a right vs. a privilege and asking for permission and all of that. I'm totally with you.

    But can we advance one foot at a time. Our legs are not long enough to take steps in miles.
    Truth? No we can't. Because if you try to advance one leg at a time the tyrannical government will use both legs and be ahead of us in this fight. While we will still have our pants down around our ankles they will be tightening their belts.

    The minute a permitted system is passed in this state, your right to carry has just become a privilege. That means it can be taken away just like your drivers license.

    While we may not have the exact same thing as VT/AK we can come as close as possible. While we can advance one foot at a time we need to do it while running.

    If it is your God given right to carry then you should not be told how or when to carry.

    The minute we give any concessions, they will only want more. So lets start out on the right foot then and not compromise at all.

    Let's say that we agree to training. Now the government puppets who probably have never held a gun will lay down strict guidelines that will set the terms of this training.

    Then of course you will have to be trained by one of the select instructors that meet the government puppets qualifications. (That usually means one of their friends that is in it for the money.) This means you will have to take this training for how ever long they deem necessary and for how ever much they feel the cost should be. (Remember it is their friends so it won't be cheap.)

    So on top of spending all of your hard earned cash to learn something you already know or could learn for free, you may very well have to miss work in order to take this training. You may have to travel to the nearest training facility. You might even need to get a hotel room and pay for all of the travel expenses. Wow! Are you getting this?

    Now after you have trained and paid what ever fee that these puppets have decided you should pay to get your "Permit." You are on your way to enjoying your new found privilege.

    But wait! You are out shopping with your wife and she asks you to reach something on the shelf for her. As you reach for the item your shirt outlines your hand gun and some shopper decides to make a big stink about it and calls the store manager, who in turn calls the police.

    Now you lose your permit because you failed to conceal the hand gun. Wow what a shame. Now you are not only out of all that money you spent on training, but you also lose your "Privilege" to carry as well. Hmmm, don't you wish you hadn't compromised?

    Criminals don't have to compromise why should law abiding citizens?

    A no compromise CCW/OCW, non-permitted system. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Stand strong.
    Carry On!
    Molon Labe!



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    As much as I would like to see VT / AK style CCW it's never gonna happen , untill we replace every one in the state legislatures & thats not gonna happen either, so are you all saying that until you get a VT style CCW bill , that you don't want to have the ability to carry concealed in Wisconsin ? because you know that unrestricted CCW ain't gonna ever happen in this state. the fix is..........well, I can't say stuff like that, it would make me out to sound like a revolutionary.
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    Glock34 wrote:
    because you know that unrestricted CCW ain't gonna ever happen in this state.
    Certainly not, thanks to the NRA and its clients.

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    Glock34 wrote:
    As much as I would like to see VT / AK style CCW it's never gonna happen , untill we replace every one in the state legislatures & thats not gonna happen either, so are you all saying that until you get a VT style CCW bill , that you don't want to have the ability to carry concealed in Wisconsin ? because you know that unrestricted CCW ain't gonna ever happen in this state. the fix is..........well, I can't say stuff like that, it would make me out to sound like a revolutionary.
    If everyone has the same attitude as you, I am forced to agree with you.

    Why does everyone feel VT/AK style carry is out of reach? We have a candidate for governor that would sign legislation to have VT/AK carry. All we need to do is get him elected. If he turns out to be a piece of crap in other aspects, we get him recalled.
    I was taught "Government by the people, for the people" but all I have ever seen is the government going against the people that got them elected into office, and nobody getting recalled.

    The single piece of legislation that would satisfy me right now is to not need to disarm before getting in my truck, on my snowmobile, or even on a bicycle. Once we get that, then we need to show how stupid the GFZ's are , and how it is unconstitutional. A solid castle doctrine would be a very nice step in the right direction, and have it cover a vehicle too.



    Lets look to Florida for a minute, they have no open-carry, but they have licensed concealed carry. Kinda sucks, BUT!!! They allow vehicle carry with no permit or licensing, and they have one heck of a solid castle doctrine to protect law abiding citizens from prosecution when some scumbag tries to carjack them or rob their home. We got nothing!!

    Illinois (AKA ILL-ANNOY) makes it illegal to defend yourself in any way whatsoever, if you are being attacked, by trying to defend yourself you are labled to be just as at fault as your attacker. So WI has it a little better than IL right now, but not much. Lets change that so IL is the last state in the country where criminals have carte blanch

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    In South Carolina all citizens not otherwise prohibited may carry a gun in their automobile's console or glove box as long as it is shut but not necessarily locked.

    Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions. [SC ST SEC 16-23-20] [ ...]

    a) secured in a closed compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance; or [ ...]

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    Vetted? Is that like corvetted?

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