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Thread: Time to fight for the Changes that are needed

  1. #1
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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    . It is bad enough the Department of Never ending Regulation has taken over our state as it is. There should not be any mandatory training required to exercise your RKBA....EVER! No fees....EVER! No registration.....EVER! No permits.....EVER!
    Anytime any of these are put in place as law, our RKBA then becomes a privilege that can be taken away. No Compromise...EVER!

    VT and AK did it and so can we. Stand Strong!

    Carry On!
    Molon Labe!
    Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, hunting never made it into the 2nd Amendment. Hunting regulations have nothing to do with RKBA and there is no defense against them based on the CONUS. No compromise EVAR!!!! is easier said than done as a practical matter. There is a difference between a beneficial compromise and foolishly accepting infringements with no gain.
    Well if the DNR and Hunting have nothing to do with RKBA then why can't you carry a fire arm in the woods on the day before Deer Hunting? Think Again, it is all tied together. To think otherwise would be naive.

    Like I said before go to VT and AK and tell them that there is no chance of a no compromise system. I bet they run you out of their state.

    We have to start some where. Just because we do not have the answer on how to acquire this no compromise non permitted system doesn't mean it can't happen.

    The truth is it can happen, it will just take a lot of effort from everyone and to be honest there are not that many here that are willing to give up their time for the effort. With that said we will have to gain the members of the other gun rights groups that are willing to put forth the effort to join in on the fight.

    Until you can show me proof that this type of system is impossible in Wisconsin, I say we go ahead and fight for it with everything we have. We need to develop a plan and move forward as soon as possible and not just sit around talking about it.

    We need to start a campaign against legislators and Anti's that will rock this state from all four corners and the middle. This movement needs to be like an 8.0 earthquake in order to get the attention we need.

    That would mean people picketing all over the state. News paper ads that let the Legislators know that if the laws don't change the people in office will.

    Get a solicitor's permit from your city government and go door to door and hand out OCDO pamphlets. (These pamphlets would have to be changed a bit to tell people to contact their legislators and state reps and demand these laws be repealed.) We need to all recruit new members here and make this organization grow state wide.

    We have good people here that are very knowledgable in these laws and subjects (I.E., Doug, BrassMagnet, Lammie, Interceptor_Knight, Mike, JPierce and many others.) If we all work together and devise a plan of attack this could work.

    We need to communicate with our brothers in VT and AK and find out what steps they took and go from there.

    Let's do this and stop just talking about it.

    Your either for this or your not.

    Who is willing to fight for it?Who is in?


    Carry On!
    Molon Labe!


  2. #2
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Well if the DNR and Hunting have nothing to do with RKBA then why can't you carry a fire arm in the woods on the day before Deer Hunting?
    Like I said before go to VT and AK and tell them that there is no chance of a no compromise system. I bet they run you out of their state.

    We have to start some where. Just because we do not have the answer on how to acquire this no compromise non permitted system doesn't mean it can't happen.
    Until you can show me proof that this type of system is impossible in Wisconsin, I say we go ahead and fight for it with everything we have.
    I suspect that the day before deer hunting statute can be gotten rid of. Has there been a challenge in court with a constitutional based defense since the RKBA was added to the WI State Constitution?

    No one is saying impossible, Never said it can't possibly happen, but to say that you will never ever ever compromise may be unrealistic. We obviously start the fight with non permitted CCW and OC. VT and AK did not get their systems overnight although VT has had it since 1903. Based on the principles likely to be involved in the fight, I am fairly confident that the next CCW (PPA) bill proposed will not include a required permit system.

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    ....Get a solicitor's permit from your city government and go door to door and hand out OCDO pamphlets. ....
    The irony of getting a permit so you can fight permits.

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    Pointman wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    ....Get a solicitor's permit from your city government and go door to door and hand out OCDO pamphlets. ....
    The irony of getting a permit so you can fight permits.
    I know, ridiculous isn't it?

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    Article I section 26.

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    Does anyone have any connections to a printing business? We need to get as many fliers and hand outs printed up that we can.

    These can be distributed to members through out the state and handed out through out their home towns.

    I know color copies will cost more then black and white so we need to decide which way to go there.

    Is anyone else up for this? This is what grass roots is all about. Not just talking but doing.

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    Lammie wrote:
    Article I section 26.
    http://www.dnr.wisconsin.gov/org/lan...egs/Deer06.pdf

    Page 8

    Firearm and Bow Restrictions
    General Restrictions
    It is illegal to:
    • hunt with a fully automatic firearm.
    • hunt with any means other than a firearm discharged from the shoulder or a bow
    and arrow. Handguns may be used as described under the “Handgun” section
    (page 10). Crossbows may only be used as described under the “Bows, arrows,
    and crossbows” section (page 10).
    • possess any firearm from 12:00 midnight–11:59 p.m. on November 17, 2006
    unless the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. Exceptions:
    target shooting at established target ranges and on private lands by landowners
    and immediate family members who live with them, waterfowl hunting during
    open season, hunting on licensed bird hunting preserves, and hunting small game
    in CWD Zones
    .

    So unless you are the land owner....yada yada yada. This means no nature walks. No using the scenic trails for what they were meant for. etc. etc. etc.

  8. #8
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    Anyway back on topic.

    Am I to understand that no one here is willing to hand out fliers in their towns? Meet with legislators at their offices? ( I have actually called mine at their homes.) We have to be Brass ( Pardon the pun, BrassMagnet) in order to get their attention and for them to see that we are not afraid to stand up for our rights.)

    We have some excellent pamphlets thanks to Para, Woodchuck, Logan and a few others who have revised and kept them current. These can be an excellent tool.

    We might have to add something like, "Call your Legislator or Representative and and demand that they move to repeal the GFSZ law and the Transportation Laws in this state. Tell them to stop infringing on your rights!"

    Does anyone else have any ideas?


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    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    Be polite. It goes a long way.
    Last edited by Brad_Krause; 08-21-2010 at 03:49 PM.

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    Brad_Krause wrote:
    If people stopped making excuses why they can't carry and actually carried daily the problem would solve itself.
    I definitely agree. However, we could take some other steps help things along as well.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    If a picture is worth 1,000 words, how much is an example worth?

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    Again, I agree. But there are more towns and cities through out this state other than Milwaukee.

    Your point is very valid in Milwaukee, but what about Madison, the home of the rogue police that are still determined to arrest for DC. They are still behind the times in comparison to Milwaukee Police.

    They actions some of the members here have taken up with city governments through out the state is now being seen in the acts of those governments repealing ordinances regarding the banning of fire arms.

    Things are starting to move. We need to keep pushing it in the right direction and not let it die under it's own momentum. It is like speaking to a crowded auditorium. Once you have their undivided attention you need to keep it.

    By all means the more examples the better. But just something to think about, When you go out and open carry, how many people see you and actually notice? and what is that number in comparison to the number of people who live in your city?

    Aggressively spreading the news may be a better tactic then passively spreading the news.

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    Brad_Krause wrote:
    If a picture is worth 1,000 words, how much is an example worth?
    If a picture is worth a thousand words, how much is a negative image worth or a non-sense picture or an emotional image or a bad example? A picture is worth a thousand words only in the context of semi-literate 'discourse'.

    This is why I will not watch TV and do my best to avoid pop-culture.

    I read heavy stuff.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    A negative image can be just as powerful--who wants to be the corpse on the evening news? I prefer to leave a positive impression...
    Last edited by Brad_Krause; 08-21-2010 at 03:51 PM.

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    Brad_Krause wrote:
    If a few people talked with the Madison police chief in person there would be no problem carrying down State Street as a law-abiding citizen.

    Brad, I agree with you on some points, except that you feel the Madison police chief can be made to see the light.
    He is an ignorant man with nothing but contempt towards everyone that chooses to exercise their 2A rights.
    I am willing to betWray got that position not becuase of his abilities, but more becuase of some racial quota or diversity mandate.

    I do not like college towns, I naver have, I doubt I ever will, they mostly consist of uber-liberal people that have been educated beyond their own level of intelligence.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Brad_Krause's Avatar
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    For me, it is better to explain the situation than to attempt to change someone's opinion.

    (As a note, I don't know what caused the large text in the previous reply.)

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    Trying to get Greenfield to see the right path currently...and doing some learning in the process whenI look after the next town. I have asked for bodies and some have shown, but I am also prepared to go it alone if need be - I came into the game late, I was not aware of went on in Greenfield during the summer months. IWRITE (and email too)to elected officials. I place phone calls. I have my pamphlets. I also have a family to raise- soI get out & do what I can, when I can. So I can throw my hat into your ring for a 'kinda sorta' at best.

    I read somewhere long ago that somewhere between 4.5-7.5%of a group will actually get off thier butts to do even the minimal. I don't know how many Wisconsin members there are total, but if you have around six replies you are hitting average if there are one hundered members. It takes the wind out of one's sails, but its usually spot on.

    When Icompare the replies to this against the Wisconsin "Say HI & where from" - you are above average already, as there are less than 100 original posts in there.

    As with our highway clean ups, we averaged abouttwelve people per turnout, it was a higher number on the 'attendance list', and it was a MUCH higher 'post view count'.

    Get whatever you can & be happy, as the only one you can truly count on is yourself. Anything above ONE is a blessing.

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    ROOK_WI wrote:
    I read somewhere long ago that somewhere between 4.5-7.5%of a group will actually get off thier butts to do even the minimal.
    So, which is 'the group', those that claim membership or those that do? "Actions speak louder than words."

    It is anile to claim membership in anything, that's why there are membership cards as receipts for dues. It is moot to claim actions that only the actor can see or the media can spin.

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    Article I section26: The people have the right to fish,hunt,trap and take game subject onlyto reasonable restrictions as prescribed by law.

    I mentioned that amendment only in regards to whether or not the DNR has theauthority to restrict the carry of firearms in the 24 hour period preceeding the regular deer hunting season. The DNR has been givenprima facierule making authority. That means that any rule made by the DNR is as prescribed by law unless found otherwise by a court of law. The question is can the DNR, acting under the authority of one constitutional amendment, pass a law that conflicts with the rights contained under another constitutional amendment. Remember, the SSC has ruled that Article I section 25 is not unfettered and is subject to reasonable regulation. Only the State Supreme Court can untangle that situation. Who wants to step forward and challenge. My opinion

  20. #20
    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    So, which is 'the group', those that claim membership or those that do?
    The 'group' is those that claim,six percentmake upthose that do.

  21. #21
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    Lammie wrote:
    Article I section26: The people have the right to fish,hunt,trap and take game subject onlyto reasonable restrictions as prescribed by law.

    I mentioned that amendment only in regards to whether or not the DNR has theauthority to restrict the carry of firearms in the 24 hour period preceeding the regular deer hunting season. The DNR has been givenprima facierule making authority. That means that any rule made by the DNR is as prescribed by law unless found otherwise by a court of law. The question is can the DNR, acting under the authority of one constitutional amendment, pass a law that conflicts with the rights contained under another constitutional amendment. Remember, the SSC has ruled that Article I section 25 is not unfettered and is subject to reasonable regulation. Only the State Supreme Court can untangle that situation. Who wants to step forward and challenge. My opinion
    Thanks Lammie for clarifying your post. I agree with you, but until some one does challenge the DNR on this it will still bring a citation.

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    Whoooshh

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