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Thread: Wisconsin Caves to Concealed Carry

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    Snipped from: http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/64262272.html

    Concealed-carry pitched as part of gun law reform

    Two powerful Milwaukee leaders on Wednesday floated the idea of allowing concealed-carry gun permits in Wisconsin as part of a larger package of gun law reforms - marking a departure with Mayor Tom Barrett on the hot issue.

    (OOPS! Already posted --seelink below.)

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Um, any gun legislative package put together with the support of Chief Flynn is a little bit suspect and I would probably WANT Doyle to veto it! Anyone remember the story of the Trojan Horse?
    A. Gold

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    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    McX
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    I bet Doyle would/will veto it right to his last day in office. Plus I kinda wonder about a Governor who would quash our 2nd Amendment rights, but then go with smoking pot with a prescription. The statement from the city leaders does show it's getting to critical mass out there, and it's time to quit smacking the beef, and address/give us our full and free 2nd Amendment rights. Of the people, for the people damn it!

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    Another rant from me here; I bet anything we get- rights wise- will be driven by money. I can just see it now, in Madison: Well, Florida gets $150 for non-res. CC, Utah $60, well, the people of our state are used to brutal taxes, let's go with $500 CC/OC, and balance our books on the backs of our citizens! Wonder how much they'll charge for those pot smoking permits?

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    After chatting with my alderman, who is all concerned about this issue, this is my take on what I think they are going to want to "deal for":

    They get state felony charges for straw buying.
    They get state felony for non-permit CCW (Probably on 2nd offense)
    They get "gun show loophole" closed. Something like anyone selling more than 5 firearms per year needs to do background checks, get FFL, etc.

    We get:
    CCW but with training requirements and of course the fees on the permit.
    Ability to carry in vehicle.

    Sticking points:
    Ridiculous school zone law, they don't want ot budge on that one.
    Open carry with no permit or training. (They REALLY don't like this.)


    He said, and I quote, "In private, Flynn and Chisolm really aren't as anti-gun as you guys think. What they are, is strongly anti guns in the hands of criminals. Mayor Barrett, now that's a different story." So I commented on the "Order my troops to put them on the ground...." comment by Flynn and he said "Look who was standing next to him, that was politics."

    I will state the alderman is really a genuine a**hole, so I wouldn't take anything he says to heart, just thought I would share it.

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    Constitutionalist wrote:
    I will state the alderman is really a genuine a**hole, so I wouldn't take anything he says to heart, just thought I would share it.
    Then maybe you should use your right to vote to get this A-Hole out of office, campaign against him, and campaign for someone that meets yor needs. Can't any regular ********* jackoff become an alderman? What would prohibit me from becoming an alderman if I wnated to do it?

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    Do your neighbors know you as we do here? Would you have to advertise that "I, John Hancock, write on the internet and on guns under the nom-de-net of Anony Mouse?

    My neighbors know who I am and what and how I write if they care to. Unfortunately I am one of five and the only one with conservative Constitutional principles.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Do your neighbors know you as we do here? Would you have to advertise that "I, John Hancock, write on the internet and on guns under the nom-de-net of Anony Mouse?

    My neighbors know who I am and what and how I write if they care to. Unfortunately I am one of five and the only one with conservative Constitutional principles.
    Very unlike you, I prefer to keep a certain amount of anonymity in pubilcly viewableforums.
    My friends and neighbors know my personal beliefs and views, and it does not bother me.
    I also do notreside (hide)on an island that requires a $40.00 fee to gain access to. So you may only be the target of stalkers that can afford to stalk you, whereas I can be stalkedand confronted by the psychos without any money and nothing to lose.
    I also do not remember you owning a service-based business that could be affested by your personal beliefs.

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    McX
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    End fighting will gain us nothing. We must remain united in our beliefs, and be happy that some movement, ever so small, may finally, and long awaited-ly occurring in our life time!

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    Starts 8 min 25 sec. in so fast forward














    McKenna Show Thursday Hour 2 Part 1
    October 15th: keeping up the fight for gun rights in Wisconsin.

    To download the podcast, right-click "Listen" and select "Save As" from the menu.


    McKenna Show Thursday Hour 2 Part 2
    October 15th: Environmentalists freaking out about big TV's and people burning wood.

    To download the podcast, right-click "Listen" and select "Save As" from the menu.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJQ34JTqk0I

    In the ashes burns an ember of liberty, We are the fuel to ignite the ember into a flame of liberty.

    The embodiment of our founding fathers will not be found in one man , But in Many.

    ****** give it away ( Our rights ) prostitutes sell it (Mandated training).

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    So you expect your neighbors to elect a pig in a poke?

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    Outstanding rant by the talk show host! best, and most convincing I've ever heard. The only bad thing is she is probably right! Were being played by our elected leaders!

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Constitutionalist wrote:
    Open carry with no permit or training. (They REALLY don't like this.)
    Too bad! Considering it is recognized as the constitutionally protected means of exercising the right to bear arms in Wisconsin they would have a difficult time restricting open carry by adding permit or training requirements. (But then I wouldn't be very surprised by what most politicians would attempt to do.)



    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Well, as I write this all the ideas that Flynn wanted except the "rigid" permitting system and the increased sales tax are being passed in another committee and providing direction for city lobbyists to infect the rest of the state with this "common sense" legislation.
    Welcome to a Massassachusetts system if it ever gets that far. 16-20 hours mandatory training and restrictions on all firearms transactions without police notification by the FFL, so statewide, no private transfers.
    Flynn was quoted as saying 'he was a chief in Virginia and Massasschusetts, in VA he had no say who got a permit, in MA he had all the power. "
    Retired police? no problem, you're in.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    Constitutionalist wrote:
    I will state the alderman is really a genuine a**hole, so I wouldn't take anything he says to heart, just thought I would share it.
    Then maybe you should use your right to vote to get this A-Hole out of office, campaign against him, and campaign for someone that meets yor needs. Can't any regular ********* jackoff become an alderman? What would prohibit me from becoming an alderman if I wnated to do it?
    Use my right to vote to get him out of office? And replace him with whom? The other screaming liberal that wants to take our guns away thats running against him? This is the City of Milwaukee, not exactly a bastion of the republican/libertarian/pro-gun movements. I know the next question, why don't I run? 1. I don't want to take the pay cut. 2. I don't want to deal with the 6am phone calls from grandma because her street wasn't plowed or garbage picked up yet. 3. I couldn't go to the titty bar anymore!!!!!!!!!

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    Principles and priorities well illustrated.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Do your neighbors know you as we do here? Would you have to advertise that "I, John Hancock, write on the internet and on guns under the nom-de-net of Anony Mouse?

    My neighbors know who I am and what and how I write if they care to. Unfortunately I am one of five and the only one with conservative Constitutional principles.
    Very unlike you, I prefer to keep a certain amount of anonymity in pubilcly viewableforums.
    My friends and neighbors know my personal beliefs and views, and it does not bother me.
    I also do notreside (hide)on an island that requires a $40.00 fee to gain access to. So you may only be the target of stalkers that can afford to stalk you, whereas I can be stalkedand confronted by the psychos without any money and nothing to lose.
    I also do not remember you owning a service-based business that could be affested by your personal beliefs.
    I always fail to see why Doug thinks that having a forum user ID of his name is somehow better than having a forum user ID that is, uhm, normal--just a nickname or a catchphrase. Curiously, ole Doug only mentions that superiority to people he disagrees with on the forum.

    Also, interestingly, ole Doug now has two user IDs here on OCDO. Why? Who knows...

    Soon, he'll be touting two IDs as a superior practice too.....

    Ya gotta love poor Doug. What a character....

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    HankT wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Do your neighbors know you as we do here? Would you have to advertise that "I, John Hancock, write on the internet and on guns under the nom-de-net of Anony Mouse?

    My neighbors know who I am and what and how I write if they care to. Unfortunately I am one of five and the only one with conservative Constitutional principles.
    Very unlike you, I prefer to keep a certain amount of anonymity in pubilcly viewableforums.
    My friends and neighbors know my personal beliefs and views, and it does not bother me.
    I also do notreside (hide)on an island that requires a $40.00 fee to gain access to. So you may only be the target of stalkers that can afford to stalk you, whereas I can be stalkedand confronted by the psychos without any money and nothing to lose.
    I also do not remember you owning a service-based business that could be affested by your personal beliefs.
    I always fail to see why Doug thinks that having a forum user ID of his name is somehow better than having a forum user ID that is, uhm, normal--just a nickname or a catchphrase. Curiously, ole Doug only mentions that superiority to people he disagrees with on the forum.

    Also, interestingly, ole Doug now has two user IDs here on OCDO. Why? Who knows...

    Soon, he'll be touting two IDs as a superior practice too.....

    Ya gotta love poor Doug. What a character....
    And How is this on topic? Shouldn't State Researchers be setting an example?

  20. #20
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    Constitutionalist wrote:
    ...my take on what I think they are going to want to "deal for":

    They get state felony charges for straw buying.
    They get state felony for non-permit CCW (Probably on 2nd offense)
    They get "gun show loophole" closed. Something like anyone selling more than 5 firearms per year needs to do background checks, get FFL, etc.

    We get:
    CCW but with training requirements and of course the fees on the permit.
    Ability to carry in vehicle.

    Sounds reasonable to me. Except for the so-called "gun show loophole." Maybe make that limit, say, 20 guns. Of course, even if the number was 50, some folks wouldn't like it. 20 is about right. Way more than is necessary for, probably, 95% of the gun selling population. In fact, that's the best way to determine the number: find out the mean private gun sales per year, and the standard deviation, then put the restriction number at 2 std. dev. above the mean.



    Constitutionalist wrote:
    Sticking points:
    Ridiculous school zone law, they don't want ot budge on that one.
    Open carry with no permit or training. (They REALLY don't like this.)
    From a political perspective, it's easy to see why they wouldn't want to give on the school zone thing. From a gun carrier perspective it's insanity to have the SZ carry prohibited in the manner it is.

    The OC issue could be resolved by just requiring whatever CC does. Of course, it must not violate 2A. But requirements should be basically the same for OC as for CC. I'm talking about training, age, personal exclusions, etc.

    As long as the restrictions and regulationare reasonable, they could pass muster on 2A.

    2A compliance is the main thing.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    The OC issue could be resolved by just requiring whatever CC does. Of course, it must not violate 2A. But requirements should be basically the same for OC as for CC. I'm talking about training, age, personal exclusions, etc.

    As long as the restrictions and regulationare reasonable, they could pass muster on 2A.

    2A compliance is the main thing.
    VERY WRONG Hank. The resolution is to require whatever OC does, which is NOTHING!

    Your suggestion is that we surrender an unfettered RIGHT in favor of a permitted privilege, and then have OC comply is absolutely backward for Wisconsin, and I will not support such a move.

    No, we will hold the line on/with OC. Will will not give one inch. We will work to overturn the SZ law both on state (Article 1, Section 25) and federal (2nd) grounds. If the SCOTUS applies the 2nd to the states, Wisconsin wins! Our SZ law has already been found un-constitutional by the SCOTUS.

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    I for one support a training requirement. I know that statement will be met with some hostility, but let me explain why. Every incident of a person open carrying, or concealed carrying that accidentally, or intentionally but inappropriately discharges his or her weapon will be jumped on by the anti-gunners. Will training eliminate these kinds of events? No. But I believe they will be reduced greatly with proper training. I think training will help our cause when looked at in a realistic, real-world way.



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    I'll second the minimum training requirement. I've attended a number of training courses and have seen certified instructors (who are students) do horrible things. Including head sweeping me twice inside 30 minutes while practicing turning to face a threat. The second time it went ugly fast and we wereseperated for the remainder of the course.

    When I shoot at the gun club I see mostly very good muzzle discipline and safety practices. There are always a few goofballs. If a person attends training and can't keep from sweeping people or other basics of gun safetyI don't want them carry around me and mine.

    I would guess that most on this forum are 'gun guys' and would not be guilty of such infractions. We must assume that each of our own 'stupid neighbor' will want tocarry too.

    No doubt someone will bring up that owning and carrying a weapon is a right not a privelege. And you would be correct. The difference is someone using their 1A rights and exercising poor grammer can't drill a high velocity projectile through a vital part of my body (IMO they are all vital!).

    Standing by with a fire suit on.

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    ShooterReady wrote:
    I've attended a number of training courses and have seen certified instructors (who are students) do horrible things. Including head sweeping me twice inside 30 minutes while practicing turning to face a threat. The second time it went ugly fast and we wereseperated for the remainder of the course.
    'Certification' is of no value.

    CQB training is for gallus-snappers, the shotgun chic and merc-wannabes.

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    HankT wrote:
    But requirements should be basically the same for OC as for CC. I'm talking about training, age, personal exclusions, etc.

    As long as the restrictions and regulationare reasonable, they could pass muster on 2A.

    2A compliance is the main thing.
    Are you out of your frickin mind? Why don't you and the likes of all your training buddies go some where else? Get the hell out of here! You are nothing more than a training troll!

    Training, Training, Training. Take your training and shove it up your arse!

    I dare any one of you so called trainers to even attempt to disarm me, please try it!

    All of you on here that are such advocates for training are so full of 5hit it isn't funny any more.

    Why don't all of you trainers go make your own website and advocate your BS there.

    This is suppose to be an informational forum and not a damn advertisement for all of your financial gain.

    I will say this once more for all of the new people who are browsing this forum.

    YOU DO NOT NEED PERMISSION TO EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS!
    Just do it!

    Don't Call
    Don't send a letter
    Don't ask
    Don't be afraid to exercise your rights
    Don't be irresponsible

    Do act in a mature normal manner.
    Do look for signs posted "No Fire Arms"
    Do be polite when some one asks why you are open carrying
    Do follow and know the current laws regarding fire arms
    Do enjoy your god given rights

    Never unholster except to load/unload and clear or to defend your life or the life of another. No exceptions!

    Doesn't get any easier than that

    If you call they could say NO!

    If you send a letter they will write you back and then you have it in writing that they said, NO!

    If you ask before you go in they will say NO!

    You should not be afraid to do something that is legal and your right to do, that is just ridiculous.

    Stop and think before you do anything and ask yourself if you are a mature and responsible individual. If you can answer yes then by all means open carry. If not then leave it at home so you do not make the rest of us look bad and interfere with this freedom of rights movement.

    If you open Carry be mature and act normal. The only person that knows this is your first time is you, so do not make it obvious.

    Look for signs that maybe posted before entering any business to save yourself the hassle. If you are asked to leave then do so immediately, with out question.

    If someone asks you why you open carry be honest and tell them. Be polite and help them too understand. They may be interested in open carrying themselves and what you say may be the deciding factor.

    Try to at least be familiar with the state laws concerning fire arms and the safe handling of fire arms for your safety and the safety of others.

    This is your God given right. Given too you by our fore fathers and fought for by thousand of veterans, many who lost their lives in the fight. So when you OC do it with honor and do it to honor those who gave you the right to do so.

    There does not have to be any special plans, picnics or rally just do it!

    And that folks is all the training you need!

    BE PROUD YOU ARE AN AMERICAN!

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