Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
I'm not going to engage you in an abortion debate. This is not the place for that. In fact, I'm NOT pro-abortion. I was adopted as an infant--if abortion had been legal in 1965, I probably would not be here.
But I'm also not pro-vigilante, and I think that the sorts of people who shoot, bomb, and otherwise assault the medical personnel involved in this issue are dangerous, evil, and criminal. We HAVE a method for dealing with laws we don't agree with here in this country--it's called the Judiciary. Shooting people because you don't agree with them is wrong. I think we can all agree with that. I'm not accusing you of wanting to do that, but I think maybe you should understand what might have been going through that cop's mind when he saw you carrying at this "assembly".
The point I'm making is that under NC statute, what you did WAS a violation, plain and simple. And post "Tiller", I think it's pretty reasonable for people to get a little twitchy when someone shows up at one of these "peaceable assemblies" carrying a firearm.
I don't think your right to "peaceably assemble" should be abridged. If you want to hang out around business you disagree with, that is your right. But under NC law, you CAN NOT "willfully or intentionally possess, or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon" if you are demonstrating upon a health care facility, EVEN if you are not "on their property". The law is pretty clear and straightforward on that point. and the 1A right to peaceable assembly doesn't really even apply here--it is not about demonstrations on private property (and as you were not on the street, but in what looks like a parking lot, I assume it WAS somebody else's private property), or about disagreement with private businesses, it is about addressing the government for redress of grievances. Again, if you're going to be an activist, you REALLY ought to know the law a little better.
Go ahead and "assemble" away, man. But you probably should leave your firearm at home when you do. After "Tiller", folks (and understandably, LEOs) get a little twitchy when someone shows up near an abortion facility with a gun. I think you can probably understand why.
Have a little common sense...
Yes, the cop DID handle this situation incorrectly. He was out of line, and he was probably acting like he did because he had, based on recent cases in other parts of the country, the reasonable suspicion that a person with a gun hanging out near an abortion clinic is probably NOT something to be taken lightly.
He shouldn't have asked for a permit, or your ID, or what your age was or ANY of that nonsense. He was out of line, outside procedure, and his frustration and agitation with the situation was probably due partly because you made a DUMB call by carrying there and he thought he might possibly have some sort of "Scott Roeder" on his hands, and partly because, although he thought there might be some law against it, he didn't know the specific statute you were violating.
He SHOULD have told you straight up that you were being charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor in violation of NC Statute 14-415.11(c). Then, he should have officially arrested you, disarmed you, asked for your ID, and then called for backup. At that point, if you had continued to be non-compliant, he could have easily slapped you with a Class 2 Misdemeanor of "Resisting Arrest". You are VERY lucky that this particular officer doesn't know the law very well...
If you're going to be an activist, be it for 2A, 1A, or whatever, you need to be VERY well-versed in the laws that pertain to your activities. In this situation, you were not.
Luckily for you, this officer didn't know the law either.
Next time, you might not be so lucky...
I mean, would you OC to a pro 2A rally in Washington DC? If you want to argue "right and wrong" vs. "legal vs illegal", that is a perfect example where discretion is the better part of valor. It is illegal to carry in DC. That law is wrong--I think we can all agree with the fact that the DC prohibition on OC is wrong, ethically, morally, and even Constitutionally. But I think any rational person would probably follow it, and leave their firearm at home when attending a rally in DC.
The same thing applies here. Under NC law, it's illegal to carry at this sort of gathering. The entire reason y'all were there is to "assemble for a redress of grievances". You disagree with the morals and legality of the services being performed at this facility. And that is your right. But under NC statutes, if you ARE engaged in such a display, you ARE NOT permitted to posses a firearm during your activity. At least that's the way I read the law. But again, IANAL...
Someone REALLY needs to get this statute interpretation cleared up with the NC AG, or qualified legal counsel. Honestly, I'm now very curious as to what the NC AG would say in instances such as this. I may have to make a phone call Monday...
I'm not going to engage you in an abortion debate. This is not the place for that. In fact, I'm NOT pro-abortion. I was adopted as an infant--if abortion had been legal in 1965, I probably would not be here.
But I'm also not pro-vigilante, and I think that the sorts of people who shoot, bomb, and otherwise assault the medical personnel involved in this issue are dangerous, evil, and criminal. We HAVE a method for dealing with laws we don't agree with here in this country--it's called the Judiciary. Shooting people because you don't agree with them is wrong. I think we can all agree with that. I'm not accusing you of wanting to do that, but I think maybe you should understand what might have been going through that cop's mind when he saw you carrying at this "assembly".
The point I'm making is that under NC statute, what you did WAS a violation, plain and simple. And post "Tiller", I think it's pretty reasonable for people to get a little twitchy when someone shows up at one of these "peaceable assemblies" carrying a firearm.
I don't think your right to "peaceably assemble" should be abridged. If you want to hang out around business you disagree with, that is your right. But under NC law, you CAN NOT "willfully or intentionally possess, or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon" if you are demonstrating upon a health care facility, EVEN if you are not "on their property". The law is pretty clear and straightforward on that point. and the 1A right to peaceable assembly doesn't really even apply here--it is not about demonstrations on private property (and as you were not on the street, but in what looks like a parking lot, I assume it WAS somebody else's private property), or about disagreement with private businesses, it is about addressing the government for redress of grievances. Again, if you're going to be an activist, you REALLY ought to know the law a little better.
Go ahead and "assemble" away, man. But you probably should leave your firearm at home when you do. After "Tiller", folks (and understandably, LEOs) get a little twitchy when someone shows up near an abortion facility with a gun. I think you can probably understand why.
Have a little common sense...
Yes, the cop DID handle this situation incorrectly. He was out of line, and he was probably acting like he did because he had, based on recent cases in other parts of the country, the reasonable suspicion that a person with a gun hanging out near an abortion clinic is probably NOT something to be taken lightly.
He shouldn't have asked for a permit, or your ID, or what your age was or ANY of that nonsense. He was out of line, outside procedure, and his frustration and agitation with the situation was probably due partly because you made a DUMB call by carrying there and he thought he might possibly have some sort of "Scott Roeder" on his hands, and partly because, although he thought there might be some law against it, he didn't know the specific statute you were violating.
He SHOULD have told you straight up that you were being charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor in violation of NC Statute 14-415.11(c). Then, he should have officially arrested you, disarmed you, asked for your ID, and then called for backup. At that point, if you had continued to be non-compliant, he could have easily slapped you with a Class 2 Misdemeanor of "Resisting Arrest". You are VERY lucky that this particular officer doesn't know the law very well...
If you're going to be an activist, be it for 2A, 1A, or whatever, you need to be VERY well-versed in the laws that pertain to your activities. In this situation, you were not.
Luckily for you, this officer didn't know the law either.
Next time, you might not be so lucky...
I mean, would you OC to a pro 2A rally in Washington DC? If you want to argue "right and wrong" vs. "legal vs illegal", that is a perfect example where discretion is the better part of valor. It is illegal to carry in DC. That law is wrong--I think we can all agree with the fact that the DC prohibition on OC is wrong, ethically, morally, and even Constitutionally. But I think any rational person would probably follow it, and leave their firearm at home when attending a rally in DC.
The same thing applies here. Under NC law, it's illegal to carry at this sort of gathering. The entire reason y'all were there is to "assemble for a redress of grievances". You disagree with the morals and legality of the services being performed at this facility. And that is your right. But under NC statutes, if you ARE engaged in such a display, you ARE NOT permitted to posses a firearm during your activity. At least that's the way I read the law. But again, IANAL...
Someone REALLY needs to get this statute interpretation cleared up with the NC AG, or qualified legal counsel. Honestly, I'm now very curious as to what the NC AG would say in instances such as this. I may have to make a phone call Monday...
