WSP going to the Smith & Wesson M&P

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I wonder what those troopers with Sausage fingers will think of them, when they can't get a trigger finger with a glove on it inside the trigger guard?

One pistol doesn't fit all pistolarios.

Hummmm.

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Boo Boo wrote:

a million bucks is still a million bucks. just because public safety gets a open checkbook doesn't mean they should be writing them. I am sure the pistols they have now are good for a few more years.

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Using this logic, the WSP should still be carrying the old Colt Police Positive's. After all those old pistols probably have more years left in them and they were sure reliable.

Of course, those that the Troopers might have to shoot at will be carrying much more modern, and higher capacity, guns.

On that note, they should also be still driving those old Dodge Coronet's with the 440's in them. Bet there are still lots of them around still racking up miles.

Ever hear of replacing something when the maintenance costs go too high????

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why dont we just arm them with spp's that way they have the round count to go into the future.

law enforcement is one of the biggest money wasteful depts in the state

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law enforcement is one of the biggest money wasteful depts in the state

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Um, not to get too far off-topic, but I'm always curious when I hear people say this: please document and support this contention. State's OFM website has a good budget breakdown; perhaps you can show us where we're wasting funds.

I think public safety does more with less. One problem the state has is that it doesn't claim sovereign immunity from litigation, and the legislature decreed that every state department and agency must maintain a fund to pay awards resulting from, or to settle, lawsuits. Take a look at how much the state pays out every year to settle litigation. You want money-wasters? Look at DOT, DSHS and DOC.

Back on topic, Marty noted that guys with large fingers might have problems getting gloved trigger fingers through the trigger guard ... yeah, the M&P has a smaller area there than the USP (designed for giants), but I've shot mine with both tac and Nomex gloves on with no problem, and I've got decent-sized hands.

One reason I was reluctant to post here for so long is that it seems that whatever LE does, most folks are still gonna be critical.

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Bo wrote:

law enforcement is one of the biggest money wasteful depts in the state

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Um, not to get too far off-topic, but I'm always curious when I hear people say this: please document and support this contention. State's OFM website has a good budget breakdown; perhaps you can show us where we're wasting funds.

I think public safety does more with less. One problem the state has is that it doesn't claim sovereign immunity from litigation, and the legislature decreed that every state department and agency must maintain a fund to pay awards resulting from, or to settle, lawsuits. Take a look at how much the state pays out every year to settle litigation. You want money-wasters? Look at DOT, DSHS and DOC.

Back on topic, Marty noted that guys with large fingers might have problems getting gloved trigger fingers through the trigger guard ... yeah, the M&P has a smaller area there than the USP (designed for giants), but I've shot mine with both tac and Nomex gloves on with no problem, and I've got decent-sized hands.

One reason I was reluctant to post here for so long is that it seems that whatever LE does, most folks are still gonna be critical.

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I'd like to be more critical, can you increase the amount of spelling/gramatical errors?

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Bo wrote:

law enforcement is one of the biggest money wasteful depts in the state

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One reason I was reluctant to post here for so long is that it seems that whatever LE does, most folks are still gonna be critical.

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Don't worry about Boo Boo he is uptight on just about anything, I don't think WSP is wasting money in this case.

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yeah i'm uptight from govt waste and this is one more thing to add to the list

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Boo Boo wrote:

why dont we just arm them with spp's that way they have the round count to go into the future.

law enforcement is one of the biggest money wasteful depts in the state

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I would rather that the State "waste" money on Law Enforcement than some of the BS Projects, Committees, Boards, Studies, etc., that they are doing so currently. Over the first term of "Queen Christine" State government has grown by at least a third. Can anyone out there (excluding State Employees and Welfare recipients) say that they are getting at least 1/3 more for their taxes?????

Every undertaking the State puts forth is plagued by waste. Artwork on freeway sound walls (what about the non-functional walls themselves), Study after Study that conclude the same thing. You would think that all the waste on studies would pay for the actual completion of the projects they study.

Government is there for the primary purpose of Safety such as Police, Fire, and Public Works. Roads provide for commerce which is another of their functions. Education is a questionable responsibility at the State level and probably is best left to local counties and districts. The rest of the BS the State sticks their nose in was never intended as one of their responsibilities.

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Yeah and even then our government slowly creeps into our personal lives, It's not enough to just maintain public safety from violent people and dangerous fires they need to heavily regulate business and protect us from ourselves and then take money from us and give it to their friends.

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I work for the state (corrections) We just switched over to the M&P as well. H&K made a lot of very big promises when their sales mencame to WAand there failure to deliver on maintains and training has caused the state to switch brands. alsowith the new M&P's qualification scores have gone up significantly and think that should count a great deal.

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i think all pd if they really wanted to save money would get glocks they are priced very well last forever and very easy to replace parts periodically as needed

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Everyone is chiming in here and in reality none of us has seen the contract that the statesigned with S & W. S & W could have given the state the pistols for $1 for all we know. On the other hand the state could have paid too much, the point is that we do not know.



Orphan

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Bo wrote:

law enforcement is one of the biggest money wasteful depts in the state

Click to expand...

Um, not to get too far off-topic, but I'm always curious when I hear people say this: please document and support this contention. State's OFM website has a good budget breakdown; perhaps you can show us where we're wasting funds.

...

One reason I was reluctant to post here for so long is that it seems that whatever LE does, most folks are still gonna be critical.

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Well, critical is OK. What matters is whether the critical comments are intelligently supported with logic and data. Or even half-intelligently....

When that doesn't happen, the critical comments are lowered to typical cop-bashing. And that's what I think you're commenting on above. Don't look to get a meaningful follow-up.

The cop-bashing on OCDO has, it seems to me, been diminishing oflate. Which is good.

Still, some of our LEO members got fed up with the past cop-bashing and left. LEO 229 is one example.

The bashers really used to load up on him... :cuss:

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Well, at least this thread has gotten new lookers to finally join... me being one of them.

I can tell you that the WSP, GA, or anybody else has paid ZERO for the new M&P's. Hear that? Zero, nada, $0.00. I am not sure about DOC, but I know first hand about WSP.

A couple of deciding factors.. Glocks were an option, but overall tested lower in a lot of areas against the M&P and the HK's. HK's are going away because of the lack of support and quick availability of parts & accessories. Overall the M&P won the deal based upon overall scores (the specifics of the scoring procedures, I am not privy to).

The WSP will have to put out funds to buy all new safariland holsters. The existing Mag pouches, from what I have heard, will not have to be replaced since the M&P's fit just fine. So overall it's a fairly seamless transition.

The Trigger guard issue is a good one, but I am sure one that was not overlooked. Most of the big toy boys put these things through some rigorous tests, from a tactical standpoint, patrol and down to a concealable detective arena.

The .40cal was retained mainly because it's a caliber that the WSP is comfortable with and they have plenty of it in stock (don't even ASK what WSP spends monthly for ammo).

So, in a nutshell, look for a LOT of USP's to be sold by LEED in the very near future. The trade outs are already in play. I hear they will be priced at $400.

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prove it

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Welcome to OCDC



Orphan

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Just put in a PDC request and have them send you the contract...

or

call somebody high up in facilities and talk to them about it. It's real easy to perform Due Diligence, and I think more personally gratifying then having somebody just hand it to you on a silver platter!

That, plus I really don't feel like getting in trouble for not keeping my mouth shut

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Welcome newcomers! And best of luck with the Smiths!

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I like the smith and wesson compact 9 M&P bought it for my wife, very nice gun.

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What model HK were they using? I tried a brief search, and found a dubious source that said USP's.