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Thread: New to UCO in Vallejo, Ca

  1. #1
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    Hello all, I'm new to UOC and new to Firearm ownership.

    First off, I have been interested in weapons in general (swords, knives, pistols, rifles, etc...etc). I finally purchased my first pistol [Taurus 24/7 .40 S&W].

    While waiting for the 10-day hold to be over, I have read up on all the gun laws and everything related. This is how I found out about UOC. I am very excited about being able to carry a weapon without having some kind of license, following the laws of course, because I read how hard it was to get a CCW, and would prefer to UOC.

    Being in a bankrupt city, our police force has diminished. I have been around a few incidents where me or one of my friends have called the police for a crime being committed, and have gotten something along the lines of "We are extremely busy at the monment, and will get a patrol car over there ASAP." While sitting there watching someone(s) break the law, we either never see a LEO show up, of they come after the incident is over.

    I have read everything on californiaopencarry.org that I can find. I then purchased a holster I liked. But I have one question about the holster, it is a Blackhawk Nylon, with a pocket attached to it for a magazine. My question is: would this be considered "attached" and considered "loaded" if I were to get 12031(e) checked?

    (not a Blackhawk, but the exact same)

    I also had another question: has anyone UOC around this area, and dealt with the Vallejo police?

    I work for the City of Vallejo, and see many LEO's. I also see the Chief, Traffic Admin and Patrol Admin periodically, and know them by first name basis. I will be handing them the info from californiaopencarry.org, and letting them know I, personally, will be UOC most of the time I'm out and about, and that I will encourage my friends to also.

    Also, one more question: I'm still unsure about UOC while in a motor vehicle. I own a pickup, and still lock the weapon in a container in the back seat. Could someone clarify if the weapon has to be contained and locked, or how to UOC while driving a vehicle.

    Thank you all for the information, and the willingness to exercise our rights.





  2. #2
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    Welcome!!

    In regards to the holster, in the time of need it might be difficult to grab the magazine and the gun at the same time with one hand, or even reach to the other side with your other hand. Just a thought.

  3. #3
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    Well, personally I prefer where the magazine is, and have been practicing dropping the empty mag from the pistol and grabbing and loading the armed magazine. I know everyone has their preferences, and I also think it might be a little better to have a mag holster on the other hip, but its just not for me.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Legend_AB's Avatar
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    RandomOck wrote:
    I have read everything on californiaopencarry.org that I can find. I then purchased a holster I liked. But I have one question about the holster, it is a Blackhawk Nylon, with a pocket attached to it for a magazine. My question is: would this be considered "attached" and considered "loaded" if I were to get 12031(e) checked?
    Welcome RandomOck!

    PC12031(g)- Loaded firearm defined as when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to the firearm,including but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.

    However (People v. Clark, 1996) CA Cout of Appeals states for a firearm to be loaded it must have ammunition "placed into a position from which it can be fired".

    So you will be fine with that holster.

    "Carry on!"

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    RandomOck wrote:
    Also, one more question: I'm still unsure about UOC while in a motor vehicle. I own a pickup, and still lock the weapon in a container in the back seat. Could someone clarify if the weapon has to be contained and locked, or how to UOC while driving a vehicle.
    You can UOC in a motor vehicle providing that you don't drive within 1000' of any K-12 schools. Just keep the gun in your holster or put it somewhere visible where it can't move around and become concealed (the dashboard or an empty passenger seat would be fine, just don't slam on the brakes).

  6. #6
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    I realize this is mainly a legal discussion, but I would suggest keeping it in a holster or case of some sort so it will be secured at all times. I know you probably won't be making any felony hot stops any time soon, but don't forget about the FBI Miami shootout.

  7. #7
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    I had one more question about the 1000' from a K-12 school part. I live within that 1000' but you cannot access the school from this side. You would have to go through someone's backyard, jumping 2 fences. So can I not UOC in front of my house?

    Also, while driving by a school, does the gun have to be concealed and locked? Or can you just use a cable lock through the magazine well and leave it out?

  8. #8
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    The gun must be unloaded and locked inside a secure container whenever it is within the 1000-ft zone. That generally means concealed, but if you had a see-through locked container it would still be within the requirements of the statute. The locked trunk of your car counts as a secure container, but the glove box and console do not. Trigger and cable locks mean nothing as far as the gun-free school zone law is concerned.

    Unless the front yard of your house has a fence that would prohibit the casual passerby from entering your property, it would be illegal to UOC there within a school zone. The courts have ruled any private property that is readily accessible to the public (such as a parking lot, or unfenced front yard) to be excluded from the private property exemption. Your fenced back yard is fine though. You can carry any way you like there, loaded, concealed, whatever.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

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  9. #9
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    Unless the front yard of your house has a fence that would prohibit the casual passerby from entering your property, it would be illegal to UOC there within a school zone. The courts have ruled any private property that is readily accessible to the public (such as a parking lot, or front yard) to be excluded from the private property exemption. Your fenced back yard is fine though. You can carry any way you like there, loaded, concealed, whatever.
    There are two issues here that are being mixed intoa singleanswer.

    There is indeed court precedent that one may not carry a loaded firearmon private property which is open to the public whilein an incorporated city (or a prohibited area of unincorporated territory) see People v. Overturf

    However, the Gun Free School Zone act has an explicit exemption for private property (PC 626.9) But currently one of your members here, Theseus, isbeing prosecuted for being on private property which is open to the public while in a GFSZ. There is - as yet - no case law for this; only the statute as written/approved by the CA Legislature

  10. #10
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    RandomRock,

    Welcome to the forum!

    I am always glad to see new interest in open carry, and hope you will not be permanently discouraged by the following constructive criticism.

    From reading your post, I can't help but feel that you're not quite ready yet. There's a lot of stuff to learn, and you won't learn all of it from pamphlets and memos. www.californiaopencarry.org is a great place to start, and a great resource to keep handy for reference.

    For example, your question - about your magazine being 'attached' to your firearm - demonstrates that you haven't dug deep enough yet. The fact is that there is a LOT of stuff you need to become familiar with. I'd hate for you to learn any of it the hard way.

    I strongly urge you to do more research before carrying. Use the search function on this forum - I guaranty we've covered 99.9% of your questions at least twice. (Of course, if you don't find your answer, feel free to ask.)
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    The gun must be unloaded and locked inside a secure container whenever it is within the 1000-ft zone. That generally means concealed, but if you had a see-through locked container it would still be within the requirements of the statute. The locked trunk of your car counts as a secure container, but the glove box and console do not. Trigger and cable locks mean nothing as far as the gun-free school zone law is concerned.

    Unless the front yard of your house has a fence that would prohibit the casual passerby from entering your property, it would be illegal to UOC there within a school zone. The courts have ruled any private property that is readily accessible to the public (such as a parking lot, or unfenced front yard) to be excluded from the private property exemption. Your fenced back yard is fine though. You can carry any way you like there, loaded, concealed, whatever.
    Theseus is currently involved in a court case where the judge is misreading the law on this. He was on private property that was within 1,000 feet of a school.

    In the Overturf case, it was ruled that your front yard, if not surrounded by a fence, is considered "a public place" in regards to the language of PC 12031, and that prohibited you from carrying a loaded firearm in your own front yard in an incorporated city.

    626.9 however, has no such language in it concerning "a public place". Therefore,UOC on your own front yard without a fence would not be violating anything in 626.9. Just don't step off your own property.


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