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Thread: A real life rebuttal to the ABC 20/20 piece "If I Only Haad a Gun..."

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Here's a real life rebuttal to the ABC 20/20 piece "If I Only Had a Gun..."

    http://www.catholicvirginian.org/arc...s/letters.html

    Mother sympathizes with shooting victim
    As a mother, I was deeply touched by your guest commentary by Lori Haas (Sept. 21 issue).

    My two sons (both engineers) applied to Virginia Tech and were accepted. I wept when I realized that had they not made different choices, both could have been in the Engineering building that horrible morning.

    One of my son’s best friends did lose his friend. I cannot imagine the pain of the parents whose children were killed or wounded, and I keep them in my prayers.

    Gun violence is right outside my front door. I have been asked to go back inside my house by a police officer carrying a shotgun. He was crossing my front yard to apprehend an armed robber two houses away.

    In the middle of the street less than one-tenth of a mile from my home, my neighbor was shot to death by her estranged husband who was an off duty deputy sheriff.

    Thank God, he was kept at bay by my armed neighbors until the police arrived. The police had to shoot and kill the deputy to prevent him from killing anyone else. (Emphasis added)

    As a substitute school nurse in a middle school, I met a student I recognized as troubled. I attempted to draw him into conversation, but in a first encounter where he knew I would be somewhere else the next day, it was difficult to establish much of a relationship.

    He was referred to one of the school administrators who seemed familiar with him. Later I read in the newspaper that he shot a man and was the youngest person ever arrested in Newport News for murder.

    There are no easy answers. New York City has very restrictive gun laws and high gun violence rates. I do not believe more laws are the answer, but that we as Christians need to be constantly aware of those we encounter and try to address needs before they escalate into violence.

    The mental health needs of the young gunman at Virginia Tech were missed on far more than one occasion. I wonder if I could have done more to help that 13-year-old student and pray that I did all that was possible.

    Students on campus are not allowed to have weapons. Even one death is too many, but as a mother, I wonder if there would have been 32 deaths at Tech if someone other than Cho Sun Weh were also armed.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    ...Students on campus are not allowed to have weapons. Even one death is too many, but as a mother, I wonder if there would have been 32 deaths at Tech if someone other than Cho Sun Weh were also armed.
    Good observation.

    It's my belief that this was the reason that Kaine paid up to a million dollars per victim to settle claims and keep quiet. Here's my legal theory: because the school is a proprietary function and not a governmental function, with students paying money to be there to receive educational services, the Commonwealth lacks sovereign immunity. And, because the school effectively prohibited students and employees from being able to defend themselves and others, the school assumed an affirmative duty to keep the students safe, and negligently failed in that duty.

    If you go in a Safeway and slip on mayonnaise that's on the floor and get hurt by the fall, that's not necessarily Safeway's fault. Although you'd be a "business invitee" to whom Safeway owes the highest possible duty of care, nevertheless, Safeway is not "an insurer of the safety" of its invitees. But, if Safeway employees know of the spill and take no action to clean it up, the situation is different, because they knowingly perpetuated the risk to people they've invited in for their own business purposes.

    In the Va. Tech. case, and someday there'll be one at Manassas Mall, and other places that prohibit armed self defense, the duty owed to "business invitees" has been changed by the actions of the landowner. The negligent failure to protect such people from harm is actionable.

    I said at the time, that if I could find one person willing to testify as a witness that he had a gun and would have had it with him on the day of the shooting but for the prohibition, I could have convinced a jury that there would have been half as many people killed, or less, and that the University was directly responsible for the deaths.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    user wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    ...Students on campus are not allowed to have weapons. Even one death is too many, but as a mother, I wonder if there would have been 32 deaths at Tech if someone other than Cho Sun Weh were also armed.
    Good observation.

    It's my belief that this was the reason that Kaine paid up to a million dollars per victim to settle claims and keep quiet. Here's my legal theory: because the school is a proprietary function and not a governmental function, with students paying money to be there to receive educational services, the Commonwealth lacks sovereign immunity. And, because the school effectively prohibited students and employees from being able to defend themselves and others, the school assumed an affirmative duty to keep the students safe, and negligently failed in that duty.

    If you go in a Safeway and slip on mayonnaise that's on the floor and get hurt by the fall, that's not necessarily Safeway's fault. Although you'd be a "business invitee" to whom Safeway owes the highest possible duty of care, nevertheless, Safeway is not "an insurer of the safety" of its invitees. But, if Safeway employees know of the spill and take no action to clean it up, the situation is different, because they knowingly perpetuated the risk to people they've invited in for their own business purposes.

    In the Va. Tech. case, and someday there'll be one at Manassas Mall, and other places that prohibit armed self defense, the duty owed to "business invitees" has been changed by the actions of the landowner. The negligent failure to protect such people from harm is actionable.

    I said at the time, that if I could find one person willing to testify as a witness that he had a gun and would have had it with him on the day of the shooting but for the prohibition, I could have convinced a jury that there would have been half as many people killed, or less, and that the University was directly responsible for the deaths.
    You make an incredible point. However trying to talk sane to crazy person just isnt possible.

    Because of that horrible day down in Blacksburg, it seemed like schools went even more into a fervor of anti gun, anti violence action. So many campuses nationwide ban weapons while the security or police fail to catch, patrol, or prevent so many attacks, (attempted) rapes, thefts, muggings, and any other threat you could think of.

    At Mason, so often do I see the police just sitting at the police station, when in reality several officers could be cruising through the busy parking lots between classes, walking across campus, or moving through the main thoroughfares of traffic to at least be seen. I dont feel safe on my campus, and they tell me I cant defend myself. However they claim to be our defenders against the wrong do-ers. Unless I am in the nice new brightly lit station, I highly doubt that a prohibition of weapons will keep me from being in danger.

    /rant


    OC - Kimber Custom II - trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, and Wilson combat mags
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    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    user wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    ...Students on campus are not allowed to have weapons. Even one death is too many, but as a mother, I wonder if there would have been 32 deaths at Tech if someone other than Cho Sun Weh were also armed.
    Good observation.

    It's my belief that this was the reason that Kaine paid up to a million dollars per victim to settle claims and keep quiet. Here's my legal theory: because the school is a proprietary function and not a governmental function, with students paying money to be there to receive educational services, the Commonwealth lacks sovereign immunity. And, because the school effectively prohibited students and employees from being able to defend themselves and others, the school assumed an affirmative duty to keep the students safe, and negligently failed in that duty.

    If you go in a Safeway and slip on mayonnaise that's on the floor and get hurt by the fall, that's not necessarily Safeway's fault. Although you'd be a "business invitee" to whom Safeway owes the highest possible duty of care, nevertheless, Safeway is not "an insurer of the safety" of its invitees. But, if Safeway employees know of the spill and take no action to clean it up, the situation is different, because they knowingly perpetuated the risk to people they've invited in for their own business purposes.

    In the Va. Tech. case, and someday there'll be one at Manassas Mall, and other places that prohibit armed self defense, the duty owed to "business invitees" has been changed by the actions of the landowner. The negligent failure to protect such people from harm is actionable.

    I said at the time, that if I could find one person willing to testify as a witness that he had a gun and would have had it with him on the day of the shooting but for the prohibition, I could have convinced a jury that there would have been half as many people killed, or less, and that the University was directly responsible for the deaths.
    You make an incredible point. However trying to talk sane to crazy person just isnt possible.

    Because of that horrible day down in Blacksburg, it seemed like schools went even more into a fervor of anti gun, anti violence action. So many campuses nationwide ban weapons while the security or police fail to catch, patrol, or prevent so many attacks, (attempted) rapes, thefts, muggings, and any other threat you could think of.

    At Mason, so often do I see the police just sitting at the police station, when in reality several officers could be cruising through the busy parking lots between classes, walking across campus, or moving through the main thoroughfares of traffic to at least be seen. I dont feel safe on my campus, and they tell me I cant defend myself. However they claim to be our defenders against the wrong do-ers. Unless I am in the nice new brightly lit station, I highly doubt that a prohibition of weapons will keep me from being in danger.

    /rant

    Funny thing is, GMU's gun ban was put in place in response to the VT shooting. Actually, that's not funny at all. It's plain stupid and was simply a knee jerk reaction from people who act by their emotions instead of their brains.

    I don't know what I'd have done if I lost my brother that day...he was an engineering student back then at VT...and lived for three years in Harper, one floor below the nut job.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The pen (laws & rules) is mightier than the sword...........except when you need a sword.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    my brother is currently attending GM and i have yet to ask him his view on things...i believe he is more anti-gun on the issue...its hardhaving a pro gun conversation in a house full of anti dems...but i try...at least my dad is open to the issue and has finally accepted me carrying (he may never admit it, butsometimes when we go places not in the best part of town,he sometimes indirectly asks if i am armed and leaves it at that,i thinkthat he feels safer thati am) even got him to go to anopen carry dinner...but he never will own a firearm...not unless he wants a divorce...lol

    when i see my bro later this week i am gonna grill him...been trying to get him to go shooting and show him that you dont have to be a lowbrow unintelligent person from the backwoods to want to celebrate your rights and have a desire to secure your ability to breath another day... i always found it amazing that anybody..race/creed/color/religion/sex aside can always come togetherthat using of firearms for sport/self defense is a good thing and how we can alwayshave a good time safetly with them. God Bless the United States.

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    <snip>.....the school assumed an affirmative duty to keep the students safe, and negligently failed in that duty.

    Which is why we need the Gun Free Zone Liability Act.

    http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htm





  8. #8
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    doug23838 wrote:
    user wrote:
    <snip>.....the school assumed an affirmative duty to keep the students safe, and negligently failed in that duty.

    Which is why we need the Gun Free Zone Liability Act.

    http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htm



    We also need a "scary avatar" liability act
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    ProShooter wrote:
    We also need a "scary avatar" liability act
    I don't care who ya are. Now that's funny right there!

    LOL


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Need more resident smilies from which to pick also.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    doug23838 wrote:
    user wrote:
    <snip>.....the school assumed an affirmative duty to keep the students safe, and negligently failed in that duty.

    Which is why we need the Gun Free Zone Liability Act.

    http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htm



    Doug, I *really* like that law. I wonder what it would take to get it some traction here in VA?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    darthmord wrote:
    doug23838 wrote:
    user wrote:
    <snip>.....the school assumed an affirmative duty to keep the students safe, and negligently failed in that duty.
    Which is why we need the Gun Free Zone Liability Act.

    http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htm
    Doug, I *really* like that law. I wonder what it would take to get it some traction here in VA?
    I think there are many Virginians that would speak in favor of this.

    The problem that I see is that such would offend the large corporate donors to the political process. Money talks. It would take an exceptionally well run campaign - not that we are not capable of such.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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