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Thread: police station off limits?

  1. #1
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    I'm sorry if this has been discussed before. I spent 10 mins searching and could not find the answer.

    On the door going into the sheriff department in lapeer county is a giant sign on both sets of doors that states:

    "NOTICE:
    Concealed weapons
    are not allowed in this building"

    The jail is housed in the same building, however access to the jail is through a separate entrance. I don't believe there is any court in the building. I noticed that a police station or jail is not on the list of places you are not allowed to carry.

    Although the sign specifically addresses concealed weapons, i can guarantee they would not be ok with open carry.

    Is this legal? or is this covered by preemption?


    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    lapeer20m wrote:
    I'm sorry if this has been discussed before. I spent 10 mins searching and could not find the answer.

    On the door going into the sheriff department in lapeer county is a giant sign on both sets of doors that states:



    "NOTICE:
    Concealed weapons
    are not allowed in this building"

    The jail is housed in the same building, however access to the jail is through a separate entrance. I don't believe there is any court in the building. I noticed that a police station or jail is not on the list of places you are not allowed to carry.

    Although the sign specifically addresses concealed weapons, i can guarantee they would not be ok with open carry.

    Is this legal? or is this covered by preemption?

    So just OC, the sign bans concealed carry......

    They are in violation of preemption. If the Jail is in another secured location even in the same building they can't ban firearms.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    lapeer20m wrote:
    Is this legal? or is this covered by preemption?
    Their sign violates preemption, for the areas of the building normally accessible to general public business. Parts of a municipal or countybuilding, if any, that are court facilities are the only exception to preemption. But an entire building can't be put off-limits to lawful carry (open or concealed) unless the entire building is a court facility.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    In Detroit the ColemanA Young building theyhave metal detectors & you cannot bring a firearm into the building, It houses all of the city's departments & alsocourts

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    bossbart wrote:
    In Detroit the ColemanA Young building theyhave metal detectors & you cannot bring a firearm into the building, It houses all of the city's departments & alsocourts
    It used to be that the security screening was atthe entrance. The metal detectors and security screening were moved back, so you actually can carry into the building. And it looks like you can get to some of the places on the first floor (I'm not certain however). Since I've only been there for court, and thus going into the court-related facilities, I don't know what other departments may or may not be accessible without a security screening. Anyone for certain on how much more accessibility there is (without a security screening)?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    I got a purchase permit from lapeer today so i can register my new mossberg 500 as a pistol. I got home, filled out the paperwork, then noticed that the perforations were in the wrong place on the purchase permit, so i drove back up to the police station to get a new one. She asked who i was buying the gun from, and i indicated that i am both the seller and purchaser as i am registering my shotgun as a pistol. She told me that i cannot register a shotgun as a pistol. I pointed out to her that the pistol permit has a check box for a pistol shotgun. She was very insistent that it is illegal to register a long gun as a pistol. Once a long gun, always a long gun, even if it's modified to be less than 30 inches in length. The other lady in the office said she agreed that it is illegal, but she said she would make a phone call to the MSP. She asked a few questions while on the phone, like overall length, barrel length, etc. She got off the phone and said that in fact it is legal to register a shotgun as a pistol. GEESH!

    After she gave me my new purchase permit, i mentioned to her that the signs on the door may be unenforcable as there are preempted by state law. She said that the signs are there for safety because the staff doesn't want people pointing guns at them.

    I'm drafting a letter to the sheriff now.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    lapeer20m wrote:
    I got a purchase permit from lapeer today so i can register my new mossberg 500 as a pistol. I got home, filled out the paperwork, then noticed that the perforations were in the wrong place on the purchase permit, so i drove back up to the police station to get a new one. She asked who i was buying the gun from, and i indicated that i am both the seller and purchaser as i am registering my shotgun as a pistol. She told me that i cannot register a shotgun as a pistol. I pointed out to her that the pistol permit has a check box for a pistol shotgun. She was very insistent that it is illegal to register a long gun as a pistol. Once a long gun, always a long gun, even if it's modified to be less than 30 inches in length. The other lady in the office said she agreed that it is illegal, but she said she would make a phone call to the MSP. She asked a few questions while on the phone, like overall length, barrel length, etc. She got off the phone and said that in fact it is legal to register a shotgun as a pistol. GEESH!

    After she gave me my new purchase permit, i mentioned to her that the signs on the door may be unenforcable as there are preempted by state law. She said that the signs are there for safety because the staff doesn't want people pointing guns at them.

    I'm drafting a letter to the sheriff now.
    You really need to look into the law there. Shotguns get really illegal really fast.

    FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN — OPINIONS OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
    Opinion No. 6280
    March 20, 1985

    PISTOLS:
    Firearm fully operable when folded or contracted with length of 30 inches or less as a pistol

    SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE:
    Rifle fully operable with stock folded or contracted as a ‘short-barreled rifle’

    SHORT-BARRELED SHOTGUN:
    Shotgun fully operable with stock folded or contracted as a ‘short-barreled shotgun’

    WEAPONS:
    Firearm fully operable when folded or contracted with length of 30 inches or less as a pistol

    A firearm containing a stock capable of being contracted or folded to an overall length of 30 inches or less and being fully operable in such contracted or folded condition is a pistol requiring licensure for purchase, carrying or transport, and is subject to safety inspection.

    A rifle with a barrel of at least 16 inches in length and a stock capable of being contracted or folded to an overall length of less than 26 inches, being fully operable in such contracted or folded condition, is a ‘short-barreled rifle’ whose sale or possession is prohibited.

    A shotgun with a barrel of at least 18 inches in length and a stock capable of being contracted or folded to an overall length of less than 26 inches, being fully operable in such contracted or folded condition, is a ‘short-barreled shotgun’ whose sale or possession is prohibited.

    Colonel Gerald L. Hough
    Director
    Michigan Department of State Police
    714 S. Harrison Road
    East Lansing, MI 48823

    You have requested my opinion on two questions relating to certain firearms. Examples of the types of firearms at issue include the UZI semiautomatic carbine rifle (barrel length—16.1 inches; length with stock contracted—24.4 inches; length with stock expanded—31.5 inches); the Remington 870P shotgun (barrel length—18 inches; length with stock folded—28.5 inches; length with stock unfolded—38.5 inches); and the Universal Firearms #5000-PT semiautomatic carbine rifle (barrel length—18 inches; length with stock folded—27 inches; length with stock unfolded—36 inches).

    Your first question is:
    Are firearms with folding and/or telescoping stocks which are fully operable with the stocks folded or contracted and whose lengths are 30 inches or less with the stocks folded or contracted ‘pistols,’ as defined in MCL 28.421 et seq; MSA 28.91 et seq, and, thus, subject to the provisions contained therein?

    The definition of the term ‘pistol’ is set forth in subsection (a) of MCL 28.421; MSA 28.91:
    “Pistol’ means any firearm, loaded or unloaded, 30 inches or less in length, or any firearm, loaded or unloaded, which by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.’
    ‘Firearm’ is defined in MCL 8.3t; MSA 2.212(20):
    ‘The word ‘firearm’, except as otherwise specifically defined in the statutes, shall be construed to include any weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by using explosives, gas or air as a means of propulsion, except any smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling BB’s not exceeding .177 caliber by means of spring, gas or air.’

    In Huron Advertising Co v Charter Twp of Pittsfield, 110 Mich App 398, 402; 313 NW2d 132 (1981), lv den, 414 Mich 855 (1982), the court stated:
    ‘All words and phrases in ordinances and statutes must be construed according to their common and approved usage…Effect must also be given to each part of a sentence, so as not to render another part nugatory…Judicial construction of a statute or ordinance is inappropriate where the language of the statute is unambiguous.’

    The definition of the term ‘pistol’ in MCL 28.421; MSA 28.91, is unambiguous. It clearly covers all firearms which are not more than 30 inches in length. The firearms which are described generally in the first question and specifically in the examples are fully operable when they are 30 inches or less in length and are pistols under MCL 28.422; MSA 28.92.
    MCL 28.422; MSA 28.92, provides that no person shall purchase, carry or transport a pistol without first obtaining a license therefor. A person who owns or comes into possession of a pistol is required to present such weapon for safety inspection to the applicable local law enforcement officer in accordance with MCL 28.429; MSA 28.99.

    It is my opinion, therefore, that a firearm which may be contracted or folded to 30 inches or less and is fully operable in such condition is a pistol requiring licensure for purchase, carrying or transport, and is subject to safety inspection.

    Your second question is:
    Are rifles and shotguns whose barrels are at least 16 and 18 inches in length, respectively, with folding and/or telescoping stocks which are fully operable with the stocks folded or contracted and whose lengths are less than 26 inches with the stocks folded or contracted ‘short-barreled rifles’ and ‘short-barreled shotguns,’ respectively, as defined in MCL 750.222 et seq; MSA 28.419 et seq, and, thus, subject to the provisions contained therein?

    MCL 750.222; MSA 28.419, in pertinent part, provides:
    ‘(d) ‘Shotgun’ means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single function of the trigger.
    ‘(e) ‘Short-barreled shotgun’ means a shotgun having 1 or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or a weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
    ‘(f) ‘Rifle’ means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
    ‘(g) ‘Short-barreled rifle’ means a rifle having 1 or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a weapon made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.’

    MCL 750.224b; MSA 28.421(1), provides that a person who manufactures, sells, offers for sale, or possesses a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle is guilty of a felony. This section specifically exempts from its provisions the sale, offering for sale or possession of a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun which the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector’s item not likely to be used as a weapon, but only if the person selling, offering for sale or possessing the firearm has fully complied with the provisions of MCL 28.422; MSA 28.92 and MCL 28.429; MSA 28.99.

    The firearms which are referred to in the second question will fall within the definition of a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun only if they are considered to have been made from a rifle or shotgun ‘by alteration, modification, or otherwise’ and are capable of being folded or contracted to less than 26 inches in length. It is unclear what is meant by the phrase ‘by alteration, modification, or otherwise’ as used in MCL 750.222; MSA 28.419.

    To resolve a perceived ambiguity, a court will look to the object of the statute or rule, the evil or mischief which it is designed to remedy, and will apply a reasonable construction which best accomplishes the purpose of the statute or rule. Johnston v Billot, 109 Mich App 578, 589, 590; 311 NW2d 808 (1981), lv den, 414 Mich 955 (1982). In construing a statute, legislative intent may be determined from consideration of all provisions of the enactment in question. Wheeler v Tucker Freight Lines Co, Inc., 125 Mich App 123, 126; 336 NW2d 14 (1983), lv den, 418 Mich 867 (1984).

    It has been held that the term ‘alteration’ means a change of a thing from one form or state to another, making it different from what it was without destroying its identity. Paye v City of Grosse Pointe, 279 Mich 254, 257; 271 NW 826 (1937).

    It is clear that if a person altered or modified a rifle or a shotgun with a fixed stock by shortening that stock so that the overall length of the rifle or the shotgun was less than 26 inches, such a firearm would fall within the definition of a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun. Sale or possession of such firearms is prohibited by MCL 750.224b; MSA 28.421(2):
    ‘(1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle.
    ‘(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.’


    In order to effectuate the legislative intent to limit the presence of such weapons in this state, a rifle or a shotgun which can be lengthened and shortened at will must also be considered as a weapon made from a rifle or a shotgun by alteration, modification, or otherwise when it is capable of being less than 26 inches in length by folding or contracting its stock.

    It is noted that the UZI semiautomatic carbine rifle is a short-barreled rifle since it is capable of being contracted to an overall length of 24.4 inches and is fully operable in this condition. The Remington 870P shotgun has a barrel 18 inches in length and an overall length of 28.5 inches with the stock folded, and, therefore, it is not a short-barreled shotgun. The Universal Firearms #5000-PT semiautomatic carbine rifle has a barrel length of 18 inches and an overall lenght [sic] of 27 inches with the stock folded, and, thus, it is not a short-barreled rifle.

    It is my opinion, in answer to your second question, that rifles and shotguns whose barrels are at least 16 and 18 inches in length, respectively, with folding and/or telescoping stocks, which are fully operable with stocks folded or contracted, and whose lengths are less than 26 inches with stocks folded or contracted, fall within the definitions of ‘short-barreled rifle’ and ‘short-barreled shotgun,’ and their sale or possession is prohibited by MCL 750.224b; MSA 28.421(2).
    Frank J. Kelley
    Attorney General
    Edit to say: Can't find the specific laws at the moment, however, I'm fairly sure that anything under 30 inches MUST be registered as a pistol and that it is almost completely illegal to register any kind of shotgun as a pistol.

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    DanM wrote:
    bossbart wrote:
    In Detroit the ColemanA Young building theyhave metal detectors & you cannot bring a firearm into the building, It houses all of the city's departments & alsocourts
    It used to be that the security screening was atthe entrance. The metal detectors and security screening were moved back, so you actually can carry into the building. And it looks like you can get to some of the places on the first floor (I'm not certain however). Since I've only been there for court, and thus going into the court-related facilities, I don't know what other departments may or may not be accessible without a security screening. Anyone for certain on how much more accessibility there is (without a security screening)?
    Was in there about two weeks ago.

    Early last year you could get to some city offices on the first floor without going through screening.

    Currently you can't go anywhere in the building without going through screening.

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    TheSzerdi wrote:

    Edit to say: Can't find the specific laws at the moment, however, I'm fairly sure that anything under 30 inches MUST be registered as a pistol and that it is almost completely illegal to register any kind of shotgun as a pistol.
    The law that you just posted basically says:

    Any firearm under 30 inches in length = pistol and must be registered as suchl

    A shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches is illegal

    a shotgun with overall length less than 26 inches is illegal

    So a mossberg persuader with 18.5" barrel, pistol grip, and overall length of 28 inches legally has to be registered as a pistol in the state of michigan....doesn't it?

    Until January....new rules go into effect in january 2010
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    lapeer20m wrote:
    TheSzerdi wrote:

    Edit to say: Can't find the specific laws at the moment, however, I'm fairly sure that anything under 30 inches MUST be registered as a pistol and that it is almost completely illegal to register any kind of shotgun as a pistol.
    The law that you just posted basically says:

    Any firearm under 30 inches in length = pistol and must be registered as suchl

    A shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches is illegal

    a shotgun with overall length less than 26 inches is illegal

    So a mossberg persuader with 18.5" barrel, pistol grip, and overall length of 28 inches legally has to be registered as a pistol in the state of michigan....doesn't it?

    Until January....new rules go into effect in january 2010
    Looking through the laws now, but I seem to recall that registering what is federally considered a shotgun as a pistol is against federal law.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    A shotgun that has a PG and is longer than 26 inches but shorter than 30 inches is a pistol in the eyes of MI.

    In the eyes of the BATF it is still a Long arm.

    It only does those of us with a CPL IN Michigan any good. As soon as I leave MI it must be transported as any other long gun.

    People without a CPL who are doing this are wasting their time UNLESS they intend to get a CPL in the future as it has no benefit for them.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    TheSzerdi wrote:
    lapeer20m wrote:
    TheSzerdi wrote:

    Edit to say: Can't find the specific laws at the moment, however, I'm fairly sure that anything under 30 inches MUST be registered as a pistol and that it is almost completely illegal to register any kind of shotgun as a pistol.
    The law that you just posted basically says:

    Any firearm under 30 inches in length = pistol and must be registered as suchl

    A shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches is illegal

    a shotgun with overall length less than 26 inches is illegal

    So a mossberg persuader with 18.5" barrel, pistol grip, and overall length of 28 inches legally has to be registered as a pistol in the state of michigan....doesn't it?

    Until January....new rules go into effect in january 2010
    Looking through the laws now, but I seem to recall that registering what is federally considered a shotgun as a pistol is against federal law.

    The registering has nothing to do with the BATF or federal Law as outside of MI it is just another long arm.

    And they do not care how it is registerd on the state level as that does not change the deffinition federally!

    My comments in RED.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    what do you think i should add/subtract from the letter?

    October 20, 2009

    Sheriff Ronald J Kalanquin;
    3231 John Conley Drive
    Lapeer, mi 48446

    While visiting the Lapeer County Sheriff's Department recently to pick up a purchase permit, I noticed a sign on the doors that states:

    Notice:
    Concealed weapons
    are not allowed in this building

    Under the 1990 state preemption law these signs appear to be unenforceable and are misleading to the people of Lapeer County and other citizens. Unless there is a state law to the contrary, county and city owned buildings including the police station are not off limits to citizens who are lawfully carrying firearms. I am requesting that the signs be altered to comply with sate law


    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.


    .


    Thank You for your prompt attention to this matter.



    Sincerely,





    Robert J Hxxxxx
    586.481.xxxx

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    TheSzerdi wrote:
    lapeer20m wrote:
    TheSzerdi wrote:

    Edit to say: Can't find the specific laws at the moment, however, I'm fairly sure that anything under 30 inches MUST be registered as a pistol and that it is almost completely illegal to register any kind of shotgun as a pistol.
    The law that you just posted basically says:

    Any firearm under 30 inches in length = pistol and must be registered as suchl

    A shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches is illegal

    a shotgun with overall length less than 26 inches is illegal

    So a mossberg persuader with 18.5" barrel, pistol grip, and overall length of 28 inches legally has to be registered as a pistol in the state of michigan....doesn't it?

    Until January....new rules go into effect in january 2010
    Looking through the laws now, but I seem to recall that registering what is federally considered a shotgun as a pistol is against federal law.

    The registering has nothing to do with the BATF or federal Law as outside of MI it is just another long arm.

    And they do not care how it is registerd on the state level as that does not change the deffinition federally!

    My comments in RED.
    Perhaps that's where I was confused. I thought the process of registering it as a pistol in Michigan was also registering it as such federally.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Nope MI pistol registration resides with the SP and while Federal agencies likely can access it they could care lees how it works or what is defined as a pistol in MI.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I would be careful with the shotgun thing as you could be arrested for it. Its still illegal under federal law. If the officer has any friends or knows any agents in the area, he could always call them up and have them come arrest you under federal law.

    Its a long shot, but you never know who you will run into. Down here in AZ the locals and sheriff are always asking us to back them up on stuff. Its a small town.

    Personally I would feel seeing someone with a Mossberg OC is grandstanding in its finest.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    CITE the federal law that takes presidence Jeremy

    Federal law does not provide for concealed carry either but people are not arrested federally BC there state provides for it.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    CITE the federal law that takes presidence Jeremy

    Federal law does not provide for concealed carry either but people are not arrested federally BC there state provides for it.
    I dont know the federal law, I was assuming it was illegal under the ATF ( federal ) as someone mentioned before. Im also not goign to look for it as im lazy.
    IF the ATF says that a shotgun is described as X and you have that type of shotgun its illegal. Just as State law trumps any city ordinance, federal law trumps state laws.

    I May be getting ahead of myself on thinking OC of a shotgun is illegal in Michigan? Thats what i was assuming here also.

    I just confused myself.


    edit: Oh i think i read it right now, People are not arrested federally because the state provides for it. It doesn't mean it cant happen though. People are still arrested for crimes committed federally even though state law says its ok. I know there have been a few pot raids on people in CA who have a prescription for it.

    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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    jeremy05 wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    CITE the federal law that takes presidence Jeremy

    Federal law does not provide for concealed carry either but people are not arrested federally BC there state provides for it.
    I dont know the federal law, I was assuming it was illegal under the ATF ( federal ) as someone mentioned before. Im also not goign to look for it as im lazy.
    IF the ATF says that a shotgun is described as X and you have that type of shotgun its illegal. Just as State law trumps any city ordinance, federal law trumps state laws.

    I May be getting ahead of myself on thinking OC of a shotgun is illegal in Michigan? Thats what i was assuming here also.

    I just confused myself.


    edit: Oh i think i read it right now, People are not arrested federally because the state provides for it. It doesn't mean it cant happen though. People are still arrested for crimes committed federally even though state law says its ok. I know there have been a few pot raids on people in CA who have a prescription for it.
    Now you're just bloviating.

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    am not
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

  21. #21
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The diff is pot is not legal federally ... a PG shotgun is.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  22. #22
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    FEDERAL law says that a shotgun must have a minimum 18" barrel and be a minimum of 26" long.

    Michigan law says a shotgun must have a minimum 18" barrel and be a minimum of 30" long.

    Those that fall between 26" and 30" with a minimum 18" barrel are those that the state of Michigan considers pistols, and can be registered as such.


    However, if the barrel is less than 18", or the gun less than 26" then it is considered a Short barreled shotgun. Which, no matter what Michigan law says, are highly controlled at the federal level.
    Rand Paul 2016

  23. #23
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    Post imported post

    jeremy05 wrote:
    am not
    am too

  24. #24
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    Yooper wrote:
    FEDERAL law says that a shotgun must have a minimum 18" barrel and be a minimum of 26" long.

    Michigan law says a shotgun must have a minimum 18" barrel and be a minimum of 30" long.

    Those that fall between 26" and 30" with a minimum 18" barrel are those that the state of Michigan considers pistols, and can be registered as such.


    However, if the barrel is less than 18", or the gun less than 26" then it is considered a Short barreled shotgun. Which, no matter what Michigan law says, are highly controlled at the federal level.
    sounds like you would be in the clear then. the mossburg is what a 18.5 inch barrel? and 28 inches long?
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

  25. #25
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    jeremy05 wrote:
    am not
    am too
    am not
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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