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Thread: Important Pro-Gun Bills to be Considered in Michigan on Tuesday!

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    This is from NRA Release last Friday:

    Friday, October 16, 2009 On Tuesday, October 20 at 10:30 a.m., the House Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources Committee will consider House Bill 5302 and House Bill 5303.

    HB5302, introduced by State Representative Paul Opsommer (R-93), and HB5303, introduced by State Representative Joel Sheltrown (D-103), would prohibit employers from firing employees who safely and lawfully store their firearms in locked vehicles while at work.

    Please contact the members of the House Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources Committee TODAY and respectfully encourage them to vote in support of HB5302 and HB5303. Contact information for the committee members can be found below.

    State Representative Joel Sheltrown (R-103), Committee Chairman
    Phone: (517) 373-3817
    Email: joelsheltrown@house.mi.gov

    State Representative Jim Slezak (D-50), Majority Vice-Chair
    Phone: (517) 373-3906
    Email: JimSlezak@house.mi.gov

    State Representative Kate Ebli (D-56)
    Phone: (517) 373-2617
    Email: kateebli@house.mi.gov
    State Representative Mike Huckleberry (D-70)
    Phone: (517) 373-0834
    Email: MikeHuckleberry@house.mi.gov
    State Representative Steven Lindberg (D-109)
    Phone: (517) 373-0498
    Email: stevenlindberg@house.mi.gov
    State Representative Mike Simpson (D-65)
    Phone: (517) 373-1775
    Email: mikesimpson@house.mi.gov
    State Representative Woodrow Stanley (D-34)
    Phone: (517) 373-8808
    Email: WoodrowStanley@house.mi.gov
    State Representative Jim Stamas (R-98), Minority Vice-Chair
    Phone: (517) 373-1791
    Email: JimStamas@house.mi.gov
    State Representative James Bolger (R-63)
    Phone: (517) 373-1787
    Email: JamesBolger@house.mi.gov
    State Representative Goeff Hansen (R-100)
    Phone: (517) 373-7317
    Email: goeffhansen@house.mi.gov
    State Representative Kenneth B. Horn (R-94)
    Phone: (517) 373-0837
    Email: kennethhorn@house.mi.gov

    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  2. #2
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Here is my email to them:

    Dear Ladies and Gentlemen -

    It has come to my attention that 2 bills will be coming up for discussion and/or vote tomorrow morning. The bills are HB5302 and HB5303. I am sending this email for support of these measures and to express my views as a citizen of the Great State of Michigan.

    I fully support HB5302 and believe that this is good legislation. I have recently obtained a Concealed Pistol License (CPL), but am prevented from carrying in my vehicle as my employer forbids possession of firearms within my private vehicle in their parking lots/structures, with possession entailing immediate termination of employment. What this effectively means is that I am not able to provide for my self-defense while traveling between Home in Royal Oak and Work in Downtown Detroit or Pontiac. I believe that this is an unnecessary infringement upon my rights as a private citizen, within my private property of my vehicle, and creates a "unique" Pistol-Free Zone (PFZ). I am conflicted by this as my CPL grants the ability to carry within my vehicle, but my employer usurps this ability with their code of conduct statements. To date, I have elected to not carry but I am concerned that this decision may impact myself and family in a very negative way at some point in the future.

    While I support the changes outlined in HB5303 in principle, I believe that there are still changes needed to this law that will avoid confusion and unnecessary harassment of Citizens of the Great State of Michigan. This law was amended in 2008 to include the term "Lawful Purpose", which effectively did away with the "To-From" clauses even though they are still included. While I applaud the effort to add "directly or indirectly" as a mean of protecting Citizen's Rights, I believe that the "Lawful Purpose" clause be listed as the following:

    A) Change the "Lawful Purpose" definition to the following: (b) "Lawful purpose" includes, but is not limited to, the following

    Without this definition, Citizen of the Great State of Michigan may continue to be harassed for having a Pistol Openly Carried without CPL in Parks and Public Areas as carrying of a Firearm for Personal Protection, wherever not limited nor prohibited by existing law, would be included in "Lawful Purpose". As you may know, Michigan does not specifically list Open Carrying of a Firearm as a Criminal Offense nor should it. One example of how laws can be misinterpreted/misunderstood resulting in a Citizen's rights being violated can be found in the following news article: http://www.grandhaventribune.com/pai...8790890277.bsp

    Please note that there are other MCL Listings where "To-From" clauses are included as shown in BOLD below:

    750.227a Pistols; unlawful possession by licensee.
    Sec. 227a.
    Any person licensed in accordance with law to carry a pistol because he is engaged in the business of protecting the person or property of another, except peace officers of the United States, the state or any subdivision of the state railroad policemen appointed and commissioned under the provisions of Act No. 114 of the Public Acts of 1941, being sections 470.51 to 470.61 of the Compiled Laws of 1948 or those in the military service of the United States, who shall have a pistol in his possession while not actually engaged in the business of protecting the person or property of another, except in his dwelling house or on other land possessed by him, is guilty of a felony. This section shall not be construed to prohibit such person from carrying an unloaded pistol to or from his place of employment by the most direct route.

    History: Add. 1966, Act 100, Eff. Mar. 10, 1967 ;-- Am. 1967, Act 49, Eff. Nov. 2, 1967

    These clauses that include "To-From" references can easily be used to harass Citizens by overzealous Law Enforcement Officers and should be clarified to the greatest degree possible or stricken from the books as soon as humanly possible.


    Please contact me with any questions about this information.

    Sincerely,

    PDinDetroit (contact info stricken from the record)

    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    The fact that you would even NEED a bill like this just shows what a joke our laws are.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Replies received so far:

    Paul,

    Thank you for your email regarding HB 5302 and HB 5303 being brought before the Committee on Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources.

    I appreciate your concerns for this legislation and I can safely say that I am a yes vote on this bill when it comes before me. I believe that this legislation has been a long time coming for the State of Michigan. I also am confident that these bills together will enhance and serve to further uphold our second amendment rights as citizens.

    Again, I appreciate your advocacy on this issue and please know that I will continue to fight for and strengthen your right as a citizen to bear arms.

    Goeff Hansen
    Paul

    Thank you for your support and for your commitment to the 2nd Amendment and freedom.

    Respectfully in Service, Paul Opsommer's Office State Representative, 93rd District
    Mr. PDinDetroit,

    Thanks for your email. The bills are scheduled for testimony only today in committee. It is not uncommon to have testimony one week and vote the next. I am a co-sponsor of the package and plan to support the bills.

    Sincerely, Kenneth B. Horn State Representative 94th District

    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Replies received so far:

    Paul,

    Thank you for your email regarding HB 5302 and HB 5303 being brought before the Committee on Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources.

    I appreciate your concerns for this legislation and I can safely say that I am a yes vote on this bill when it comes before me. I believe that this legislation has been a long time coming for the State of Michigan. I also am confident that these bills together will enhance and serve to further uphold our second amendment rights as citizens.

    Again, I appreciate your advocacy on this issue and please know that I will continue to fight for and strengthen your right as a citizen to bear arms.

    Goeff Hansen
    Paul

    Thank you for your support and for your commitment to the 2nd Amendment and freedom.

    Respectfully in Service, Paul Opsommer's Office State Representative, 93rd District
    Mr. PDinDetroit,

    Thanks for your email. The bills are scheduled for testimony only today in committee. It is not uncommon to have testimony one week and vote the next. I am a co-sponsor of the package and plan to support the bills.

    Sincerely, Kenneth B. Horn State Representative 94th District
    AWESOME!!!

  6. #6
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Here is a response I received today:

    Dear Mr. PDinDetroit,

    State Representative Jim Slezak appreciates the time you have taken out of your day to write him your concern pertaining to HB 5302, HB 5303. The representative would like you to know that these bills which were sponsored by Representative Opsommer and Representative Sheltrown did hear testimony today at the committee meeting. These bills are scheduled for a vote on October 27, but this is susceptible to change. I am attaching a couple of links at the bottom of this email so that you may follow these bills as they progress through the legislative process.

    Thank you for contacting our office and if you have any further questions or concerns please feel free to contact us once again. HB 5302 HB 5303

    Sincerely, Trevor L. Westbrook Office Staff for State Representative Jim Slezak Jim Slezak, State Representative 50th District State Capitol PO Box 30014 124 North Capitol Lansing, MI 48909-7514 517-373-3906 517-373-5812 fax http://www.050.housedems.com
    That looks like a "NO" vote in my book.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    I recieved several responses already, but they were all automated responses.



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    Recieved this today.

    "Thank you for your email regarding HB 5302 and HB 5303 being brought before the Committee on Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources.


    I appreciate your concerns for this legislation and I can safely say thatIam a yes vote on this bill when it comes before me. I believe that this legislation has beena long time coming for the State of Michigan. I also am confident that these bills together will enhance and serve tofurther uphold our second amendment rights as citizens.

    Again, I appreciate your advocacy on this issue and please know that I will continue to fight forand strengthenyour right as acitizen to bear arms.


    Goeff Hansen"

  9. #9
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    BTT

    Today the MI House Committee on Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources will vote on HB5302 and HB5303, along with a number of others:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...3-7b9ddfe800f9

    I urge anyone who can attend to do so. I am in training class this week and cannot miss any time.

    Location: 521 House Office Building, Lansing, MI
    Date: Tuesday, 10/27/2009
    Time: 10:30 AM
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Is there a way to find out how these State Reps. voted on each bill? I'd like to know if some of the Reps. that replied to our emails saying they would vote "YES", only to find out they voted "NO". I just want to know if they were blowing smoke up our a$$ in hopes that we would vote for them in the future.

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    T Vance wrote:
    Is there a way to find out how these State Reps. voted on each bill? I'd like to know if some of the Reps. that replied to our emails saying they would vote "YES", only to find out they voted "NO". I just want to know if they were blowing smoke up our a$$ in hopes that we would vote for them in the future.
    The vote today is just the committee members. If it passes the committee it goes to the general House and they work on it, make changes, garner support etc. THEN IF the house votes on it there is a record of who voted how. But that will be down the road a piece.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  12. #12
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    These bills were passed in the Committee by a 9-1 vote. These may now come up on the House Floor for a vote. Please contact your MI House Representative to express your support for this bill. The following was sent to mine:

    Marie/Marty -

    I strongly urge you to vote YES/YEA on House Bills HB 5302 and HB 5303. I believe that these are good pieces of legislation and will allow Citizens of the Great State Of Michigan to better protect themselves and their families.

    I will be watching the outcome of this legislation and your votes on these bills.

    Sincerely,

    PDinDetroit
    You can find your rep here: http://house.michigan.gov/find_a_rep.asp
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  13. #13
    Regular Member drew68's Avatar
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    My rep, James Bolger; District 63, is a member of the NRA. I still emailed him just in case he needed a little nudging.

  14. #14
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    The MI Senate now has bills similar to HB 5302 and HB 5303, which are SB 792 and SB 793 respectively. While SB 792 looks good, SB 793 still has the "to-from" clauses that were removed from the House Version.

    LINKS:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...9-SIB-0792.htm

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...9-SIB-0793.htm

    Email I received:

    Parking Lot Bills Marching Forward in Lansing!
    Senate Bill 792 and Senate Bill 793. These bills will be heard on the Senate floor in the coming weeks.

    SB792, introduced by State Senator Roger Kahn (R-32), and SB793, authored by State Senator Jim Barcia (D-31),would prohibit employers from firing employees who safely and lawfully store their firearms in locked vehicles.

    Also, the House versions of these bills, House Bill 5302 by State Representative Paul Opsommer (R-93), and House Bill 5303 by State Representative Joel Sheltrown (D-103), could be heard on the House floor any day.

    Please contact your State Senator TODAY and respectfully encourage them to support SB792 and SB793. To find your Senator and their contact information, please click here. Also don’t forget to contact your State Representative and politely urge them to vote in favor of HB5302 and HB5303 when it comes before them on the House floor. To find your Representative and their contact information, please click here.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    HB 5302 and HB 5303 are going to a vote in the MI House tomorrow. Please contact your House Representatives and urge them to vote YES on these bills.

    Locate your representative here: http://www.capwiz.com/nra/state/main...ew=myofficials
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Nothin like steppin on Private property rights!


  17. #17
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    conservative85 wrote:
    Nothin like steppin on Private property rights!
    Agreed! Like stepping on the private property rights in my vehicle.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    done and done
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

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    God Bless

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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    conservative85 wrote:
    Nothin like steppin on Private property rights!
    Agreed! Like stepping on the private property rights in my vehicle.
    Don't bring your vehicle to their private property, your not being forced to park there.



  20. #20
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    Private property over rules all state laws on possession.

    I'm not here to argue with any ones on gun rights, but at the same time if we step on property rights, this will become a slippery slope.


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    "As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights. Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions."
    -- James Madison, National Gazette essay, March 27, 1792

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. "
    -- Mark Twain (1866)

  22. #22
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    conservative85 wrote:
    Nothin like steppin on Private property rights!
    You mean like Smoking bans in bars, etc. The government can tell private property owners to outlaw smoking (Not a right), but they won't stand up for a right (Firearm possession). Don't get me started.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    You mean like Smoking bans in bars, etc.
    smoking bans in bars?!? now i dont smoke... but i'd like to see where that is...

    and i dont see this as stepping on private property rights. actually... its giving us our private property rights back. my vehicle is MY private property and anything in it is my private property.

    sure... you could tell me to keep my private property off your private property. no problem. but as an employeer... providing parking for my private property, you shouldn't be able to control whats inside of my private property that you allowed me to put onto your private property.

    so as long as its in my private property... they shouldn't worry about it. its just like if you had some friends in your vehicle with you. you get stopped. your friends had illegal drugs in your vehicle. according to law enforcement/law(i believe)... its considered your private property! and only because its inside of your private property and you control what is in your private property. its your responsibility.

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  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    viperar15 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    You mean like Smoking bans in bars, etc.
    smoking bans in bars?!? now i dont smoke... but i'd like to see where that is...

    and i dont see this as stepping on private property rights. actually... its giving us our private property rights back. my vehicle is MY private property and anything in it is my private property.

    sure... you could tell me to keep my private property off your private property. no problem. but as an employeer... providing parking for my private property, you shouldn't be able to control whats inside of my private property that you allowed me to put onto your private property.

    so as long as its in my private property... they shouldn't worry about it. its just like if you had some friends in your vehicle with you. you get stopped. your friends had illegal drugs in your vehicle. according to law enforcement/law(i believe)... its considered your private property! and only because its inside of your private property and you control what is in your private property. its your responsibility.
    Smoking bans are all over the country and has been proposed in Michigan. I can't remember where but one town even banned smoking in your own backyard. Google smoking bans.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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