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Thread: Shoulder Holsters

  1. #1
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    As we all know, it is bad form (and unsafe) to swipe a person with the muzzle of a gun. This has been taught to us time and time again. Rules we all know: every gun is always loaded; always point the gun in a safe direction; never point a gun at something you don't want to be destroyed (or something you don't want dead). The thing that I don't understand is why, even after being taught those rules, horizontal shoulder holsters (that point straight back) are acceptable. It's impossible to always know what your gun is pointing at. If you're around people at all, it is extremely likely that your gun will be pointed at someone at some point. I understand that it is extremely unlikely for a gun to discharge without some kind of external force, but aren't we supposed to err on the safe side?

    Don't think I'm bashing shoulder holsters, because I'm about to buy one as soon as I have the money. I plan on adjusting it so it angles down at about 45 degrees though, so it's not pointing at people when I walk around.

    Please discuss.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Never heard of a pistol discharging while in a holster.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Never heard of a pistol discharging while in a holster.
    Last year when my CZ52 fell on the ground, landed on the hammer and shot me in the leg, it was still in a holster.

    The 4 rules go great lengths to make sure that human error is eliminated as a reason for a discharge, but always remember that equipment is mechanical in nature and can fail at any time. That is why you must never ever allow the muzzle to cover something you aren't willing to destroy.

    That being said, I am in agreement that shoulder holsters that point back behind the carrier are a bad idea.
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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Never heard of a pistol discharging while in a holster.
    But that doesn't mean it can't happen. Maybe a damaged internal component fails over time and drops the pin. Just because it's rare (or even 'unheard of') doesn't mean it's impossible.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Michigander wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Never heard of a pistol discharging while in a holster.
    Last year when my CZ52 fell on the ground, landed on the hammer and shot me in the leg, it was still in a holster.

    The 4 rules go great lengths to make sure that human error is eliminated as a reason for a discharge, but always remember that equipment is mechanical in nature and can fail at any time. That is why you must never ever allow the muzzle to cover something you aren't willing to destroy.

    That being said, I am in agreement that shoulder holsters that point back behind the carrier are a bad idea.
    The firearm didn't just discharge all by itself while in a holster.
    Negligent handling of the firearm was involved.

    ETA: I think that cheap a$$ guns from former the former soviet union are a bad idea.

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    EM87 wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Never heard of a pistol discharging while in a holster.
    But that doesn't mean it can't happen. Maybe a damaged internal component fails over time and drops the pin. Just because it's rare (or even 'unheard of') doesn't mean it's impossible.
    Well I guess that just sitting on a shelf it could discharge also. Or while in a drawer. Or in a glove compartment. Or in a safe. Or in a house. Or with a mouse. In a box. With a fox.

    Or... Hell the world could end tomorrow. Just because it hasn't happened before, doesn't mean it won't.

    We could even have a hurricane here tomorrow. Just because it never happened, doesn't mean it can't.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    The point of this is that if it discharges while pointed at someone, only bad things happen. If it discharges somewhere other than in a holster...

    CV67PAT wrote:
    Or while in a drawer. Or in a glove compartment. Or in a safe. Or in a house. Or with a mouse. In a box. With a fox.
    ...then at least it wasn't pointed at anyone.

    Perhaps instead of it discharging due to a failed component, maybe it happens while unholstering, or the more likely scenario, re-holstering. Having a negligent discharge while re-holstering negates the fact that some people think it's completely impossible for a gun to discharge without a negligent handler because that means that horizontal shoulder holsters are not safe. Therefore, we can get back to the safety discussion and not the guns-don't-go-off-by-themselves argument.

    And CV67PAT, I sense sarcasm in your post, but reading it as a serious argument makes complete sense. Anything can happen.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    The firearm didn't just discharge all by itself while in a holster.
    Negligent handling of the firearm was involved.

    ETA: I think that cheap a$$ guns from former the former soviet union are a bad idea.
    No it didn't, and I've always maintained that it was my fault. And I agree. That is not news.

    You said you'd never heard of it, and now you have.

    That is not the only gun which could have internal problems and discharge with a blow to the hammer. If you take the 4 rules for what they say, as we all must, each and every gun must be treated with that level of caution, even if 10 separate safety mechanisms make it impossible to fire without the trigger being pulled.
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    EM87 wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Never heard of a pistol discharging while in a holster.
    But that doesn't mean it can't happen. Maybe a damaged internal component fails over time and drops the pin. Just because it's rare (or even 'unheard of') doesn't mean it's impossible.
    Well I guess that just sitting on a shelf it could discharge also. Or while in a drawer. Or in a glove compartment. Or in a safe. Or in a house. Or with a mouse. In a box. With a fox.

    Or... Hell the world could end tomorrow. Just because it hasn't happened before, doesn't mean it won't.

    We could even have a hurricane here tomorrow. Just because it never happened, doesn't mean it can't.
    Well look at it this way, this forum is FULL of advice and i am soaking it all in, but if you look at it this way! Great advice on the shoulder holster, Good thinking!! I appreciate the advice. If it helps just 1 person (and it diid becouse i am in the market for 1), then you did your job rite? I will not argue as i appreciate the advice thanks!

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    And that's something else I hadn't thought of, Michigander. While in the holster, the hammer could be hit by something, causing the gun to discharge. That way it's not discharging on its own (as CV67PAT says can't happen), but it's still holstered.

    Basically what's come of this thread so far is that we've determined that shoulder holsters are not as safe as other holsters. The original question still stands (paraphrasing): why are horizontal shoulder holsters accepted if they create unnecessary danger?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    pdidinpain wrote:
    Well look at it this way, this forum is FULL of advice and i am soaking it all in, but if you look at it this way! Great advice on the shoulder holster, Good thinking!! I appreciate the advice. If it helps just 1 person (and it diid becouse i am in the market for 1), then you did your job rite? I will not argue as i appreciate the advice thanks!
    Thanks. It's always nice to know that the stuff we talk about on here is helpful to someone!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    I have a horizontal shoulder holster that I don't use any more. It was ok when I was by my self riding my bike with my jacket or even leather vest on, but I had a problem with it in the car with a passenger in the rear seat. Did not care for it. Put yourself in the rear passenger's place and you'll see why. Got a paddle holster now and feel better about carrying.springerdave.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    I agree with those that think its a bad idea... for the same reasons. Basically, I don't want a gun pointed at me, period,whether its unloaded, on a shelf by itself, or in a box with a fox.

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    AMEN!

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    EM87 wrote:
    And that's something else I hadn't thought of, Michigander. While in the holster, the hammer could be hit by something, causing the gun to discharge. That way it's not discharging on its own (as CV67PAT says can't happen), but it's still holstered.

    Basically what's come of this thread so far is that we've determined that shoulder holsters are not as safe as other holsters. The original question still stands (paraphrasing): why are horizontal shoulder holsters accepted if they create unnecessary danger?
    Not all shoulder holsters are bad! My Galco is adjustable to point up/down where ever I want it. And Police Detectives have used them for years! Even if you have a regular holster the gun could fire and ricochet hitting someone or something. I use my all the time while snowmobiling. I love mine, and will never get rid of it. I have the Galco shoulder holster, Sepra II, And also a fanny pack holster.

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I agree with those that think its a bad idea... for the same reasons. Basically, I don't want a gun pointed at me, period,whether its unloaded, on a shelf by itself, or in a box with a fox.

    Evil Creamsicle wrote:

    Take my advice... I'm not using it.



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    Michigander wrote:
    That is why you must never ever allow the muzzle to cover something you aren't willing to destroy.
    Then you should never put a loaded gun into any holster on your person.

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I agree with those that think its a bad idea... for the same reasons. Basically, I don't want a gun pointed at me, period,whether its unloaded, on a shelf by itself, or in a box with a fox.

    Evil Creamsicle wrote:

    Take my advice... I'm not using it.

    if you really want to be that way, and make this a personal berrating... then you might want to note that in the picture, its pointing at the ground.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Then you should never put a loaded gun into any holster on your person.
    Typically on this forum, people are respectful of each other, and try to say well rounded and intelligent things as best as they know them so that everyone can benefit from everyone elses knowledge.

    As of right now I'm not trying to imply you're doing anything other than that, but I gotta ask, what are you getting at here?
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    Michigander wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Then you should never put a loaded gun into any holster on your person.
    Typically on this forum, people are respectful of each other, and try to say well rounded and intelligent things as best as they know them so that everyone can benefit from everyone elses knowledge.

    As of right now I'm not trying to imply you're doing anything other than that, but I gotta ask, what are you getting at here?
    Let me restate it using your logic...

    Then a loaded gun should not be put into any holster on one's person because of the proximity of the muzzle to the body.

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I agree with those that think its a bad idea... for the same reasons. Basically, I don't want a gun pointed at me, period,whether its unloaded, on a shelf by itself, or in a box with a fox.

    Evil Creamsicle wrote:

    Take my advice... I'm not using it.

    if you really want to be that way, and make this a personal berrating... then you might want to note that in the picture, its pointing at the ground.
    It's not a personal berating. You've got a gun pointed at your foot with every step you take.

    You're the one that said you for one don't want a gun pointed at you. But there you are doing it.

    It is a nice picture of you though.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Yosemite Sam wrote:
    Not all shoulder holsters are bad! My Galco is adjustable to point up/down where ever I want it. And Police Detectives have used them for years! Even if you have a regular holster the gun could fire and ricochet hitting someone or something. I use my all the time while snowmobiling. I love mine, and will never get rid of it. I have the Galco shoulder holster, Sepra II, And also a fanny pack holster.
    If you can adjust them to point down, I don't have a problem with them. In fact, since you told me yours was adjustable, I bought the same one off ebay yesterday for 115 bucks. Not a bad price! Optics Planet (an official Galco reseller) has a bunch listed with the "or best offer" option, so I bartered with them. I ordered it around 1pm yesterday, and they shipped it just a few hours later. They emailed me a tracking number, and when I checked it this morning I found that it's already on the local truck for delivery! How's that for fast?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Let me restate it using your logic...

    Then a loaded gun should not be put into any holster on one's person because of the proximity of the muzzle to the body.
    Absolutely. Which is why I both use and suggest a holster like my Safariland, which sticks out about an inch and a half, and is clearly designed to point out and away from the users leg.

    For the most part I carry chamber empty, and my Sig is drop safe 2 different ways, but I still don't want a holster that points at me or anyone else.
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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I agree with those that think its a bad idea... for the same reasons. Basically, I don't want a gun pointed at me, period,whether its unloaded, on a shelf by itself, or in a box with a fox.

    Evil Creamsicle wrote:

    Take my advice... I'm not using it.

    if you really want to be that way, and make this a personal berrating... then you might want to note that in the picture, its pointing at the ground.
    It's not a personal berating. You've got a gun pointed at your foot with every step you take.

    You're the one that said you for one don't want a gun pointed at you. But there you are doing it.

    It is a nice picture of you though.
    most of the time it is out to the side but it does wobble around a lot... its not quite done. I'm actually trying to think of a different rig using a power drill holster...
    For that very reason, and the fact that I can't really draw that thing anyways, I was carrying it chamber empty.

    In any case though, I wouldn't want to point it at someone else. If I get shot by my own ignorance, fine its my own fault. If someone else gets shot for my ignorance, I couldn't live with it.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I'm actually trying to think of a different rig using a power drill holster...
    For that very reason, and the fact that I can't really draw that thing anyways,
    We can easily cut up and rivet or bolt a tool pouch into the right shape, and I'd also think we might want to add in a wood block to act as a spacer to keep it pointed out and away from your leg, but still pretty much straight down at the ground.
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