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Thread: I'm from Utah, but i want to buy for my brother in WA.

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    I live in Utah, about a 10 hour drive from Spokane where my younger brother lives. Both him and I are former Marines and neither of us have a criminal record of any kind.

    I have a Concealed Firearms Permit and I CC everywhere with a Ruger LCP. I do like it, even though the ammo's hard to find right now.

    I want to pay for my younger brother to get his Concealed Firearms Permit and then to buy him a handgun, but I'm not sure how to handle this.

    What's the procedure used to get a permit in WA? Do I just pay his instructor FOR him and then he just takes the class?

    What about getting the weapon to him? Do I buy it and ship it to a shop with an FFL near him? Will he need to pass a background check (assuming he doesn't yet have his permit)? Would it be easier to purchase the gun at a shop near him over the phone so he can just come in and take care of the transfer?

    What's the best way to handle this?

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    in wash you just apply for the permit.

    and the best way is to give him the money once you find the gun he wants.

    since straw purchases are illegal.

    thoughi dont see anything wrong with giving a family member a weapon. the govt likes to meddle and get into everyones buisness

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    The permit is the easy part. Washington does not have any mandatory instruction. You go down to the sheriff's office, pay the fee (Cash or check), get finger-printed, and assuming you are good to go, from0 to 30 dayslateryou have your permit.

    Purchasing the gun may be another matter. It's complicated by federal regulations because you live in a different state. Gifts are legal, straw purchases are not.

    I beleive this is what you would have to do: (IANAL so someone correct me if I'm wrong).

    1. Purchase the gun of your choice in UTAH.

    2. Inform the Gun Shop that it is a gift for your brother and pay to have it shipped to a gun dealer in Spokane.

    3. The gun dealer in spokane will run the NICS and State checks on your brother and let him have the gun.

    The concealedpistol permit does not exempt him from the NICS check, only from the 5 day waiting period.

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    gotcha. So shipping it to an FFL where they do the check is what's got to be done, then. How long is the check and how much does it cost on that side?

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    Also thanks, I forgot about Straw Purchases.

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    UtahJarhead wrote:
    gotcha. So shipping it to an FFL where they do the check is what's got to be done, then. How long is the check and how much does it cost on that side?
    The CPL takes 0 to 30 days.

    The NICS check is instant.. usually. If he has his permit already, he can walk out with the gun. If he does not, he would have to wait 5 days.

    The fee varies by dealer.. and I've seen it be anything from $10 to $100. Some places specialize in it, and some really don't like doing it and charge huge fees to avoid it. They would much rather sell him the gun themselves.

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    either way he's waiting 5 days for the pistol

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    in wash you just apply for the permit.
    Correction - In Washington you just apply for the License ( WA issues a Concealed Pistol License - CPL)


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    M1Gunr wrote:
    Correction - In Washington you just apply for the License ( WA issues a Concealed Pistol License - CPL)
    apples and oranges.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    UtahJarhead wrote:
    gotcha. So shipping it to an FFL where they do the check is what's got to be done, then. How long is the check and how much does it cost on that side?
    The NICS check cost nothing. The transfer is what costs. Talk to the receiving FFL prior to shipping to find out what they charge for the transfer.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    since straw purchases are illegal.

    thoughi dont see anything wrong with giving a family member a weapon. the govt likes to meddle and get into everyones buisness
    1) It isn't a straw purchase (by firearms law) if the gun is being transferred through an FFL. By definition he will have an NICS check performed.

    2) It isn't a straw purchase (by firearms law) if the person receiving the gun is legally allowed to own a firearm, even if it doesn't go through NICS AND the firearm is being purchased as a gift. Since he would have just obtained his Washington CPL, he would have just completed a background check.



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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Why dont you just go andbuy the gun he would like to recieve as a giftfrom you?

    send him the money for him to pay for the CPL you would like to pay for?

    Give the gun to him in person for christmas, all wrapped up real pertty!

    to hell with all the crap about interstate transfers! FFLs! Background checks!

    Youre a really good brother. Felis navidad!!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    I *DO* like that idea, but 10 hour drive away. Is it breaking any federal laws since I'm in Utah and he lives in WA?

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    k, so regardless FFL transfer is required to stay within the law. No problem. I'll do it that way, then. Easier than I thought...

    give him the money for the CPL, send him the gun through a local FFL. Done.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Boo Boo wrote:
    in wash you just apply for the permit.

    and the best way is to give him the money once you find the gun he wants.

    since straw purchases are illegal.

    thoughi dont see anything wrong with giving a family member a weapon. the govt likes to meddle and get into everyones buisness
    It is not a straw purchase. A straw purchase is when you buy a gun for someone who cannot legally buy the gun themselves, or if you buy the gun claiming it is for yourself and intending to give it to someone else without jumping through the proper legal hoops.

    If it is legal for the gift purchaser to buy the gun, and it would be legal for the gift receiver to buy the gun, then it is perfectly legal to buy a gun for someone else.

    The downside is having to transfer the gun from the gift buyer to the gift receiver interstate. That will require going through an FFL under Federal Law.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:
    Why dont you just go andbuy the gun he would like to recieve as a giftfrom you?

    send him the money for him to pay for the CPL you would like to pay for?

    Give the gun to him in person for christmas, all wrapped up real pertty!

    to hell with all the crap about interstate transfers! FFLs! Background checks!

    Youre a really good brother. Felis navidad!!!!
    Are you STUPID? You are advising the OP to commit a Federal Crime.

    If you just forgot to put the emoticon on the post to indicate that you post was a joke, then I apologize.

    We DO NOT EVER advise ANYONE to break the law here. Civil Disobedience as a form of protest might be acceptable, because the individual performing the illegal act has the intention of being arrested i.e. the protest. However, disregarding and VIOLATING Federal Firearms laws out of a desire to not be inconvenienced is just wrong.

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    what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas
    Chevy doesn't make Vegas any more.

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    It is a "straw purchase" regardless of the other person being a restricted person or not. If you use their money to buy a gun, it is illegal.

    But it is legal to buy a gun to give as a gift, as long as the person is legal. You are then using your money, not theirs.

    If the gift recipient is a resident of a different state, the transfer must be through an FFL.

    Bruce

    From 4473 instructions:



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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Boo Boo wrote:
    what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas
    thank you Boo Boo, for the backup!

    it would take more than an emoticon to keep me from being stupid! shouldnt have writen such a plain idea about a gift to a brother, my fatherly advice was ill advised, legaly.

    its note worthy that in Wa. you can legaly sell or give a gun to a stranger with no ID, no background check, no record, no recipt, no names.

    Its a private transaction, and it stays private.

    the gov makes laws to protect its own interests.

    in my eyes, if a US Marine wants to give a gun to a US Marine, i say carry on!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:
    Why dont you just go andbuy the gun he would like to recieve as a giftfrom you?

    send him the money for him to pay for the CPL you would like to pay for?

    Give the gun to him in person for christmas, all wrapped up real pertty!

    to hell with all the crap about interstate transfers! FFLs! Background checks!

    Youre a really good brother. Felis navidad!!!!
    Because, unfortunatly that would be in violation of Federal Law. It shouldn't be but it is. While he in all likely hood would not get caught, advocating breaking federal law on an open forum isnot a good idea.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Cabelas Gift Cards ftw.

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    Does anyone know if anyone has ever been prosecuted for violating this law under circumstances similar to those being discussed here? I cannot imagine it would be much of a priority matter for a US Atty, considering how many times I've had them turn down cases for federal prosecution where there were convicted felons, guns, and distribution quantities of drugs.





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    I tend to agree with Olypendrew. I havehad the occasion to arrest for manufacturing full auto parts for Uzi on Gov't property. The US atty said "No, have the local authorities handle it" The locals said "That's Federal we don't have jurisdiction"

    That being said, do it right and be one of the good guys.

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    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    I'm DEFINITELY doing it all legal and legit like. Screwing that up will make them yank my CFP in a heartbeat and I'm gonna be honest... I like having protection (the non-latex kind) on me at all times!

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