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Thread: Managing you alcohol and OC/CC

  1. #1
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    I saw an interesting post on another board and would rather see some local opinions on how people handle the situations.

    I'll start with how I handled it. I myself do not drink much. Don't have the free time, money, nor a driver usually if I have more then expected lol. I was over at a buddies house and wasnt expecting to drink and was carrying. He offered me some drinks which I accepted. Before I even took s sip I went out to my car unloaded & cleared the pistol and put it in to my trunk. I did seperate the mag from the pistol. Went back in drank a few drinks. After a couple hours I drove home. Considering I drank and didn't want to worry what my BAC was I left it in the trunk driving home. From what I understand this was the best way to handle it. I wonder what others think about it or do?

    One concern was if I happened to be with someone else carrying and I wasnt driving could I do the same thing with their trunk as long as they were ok with it.

    Mike

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I don't drink... at all so this is not a worry of mine...

    I think what you did Mike was the best plan though if you are going to drink.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    mikestilly wrote:
    One concern was if I happened to be with someone else carrying and I wasnt driving could I do the same thing with their trunk as long as they were ok with it.
    Could you elaborate more on this question? I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.

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    T Vance wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    One concern was if I happened to be with someone else carrying and I wasnt driving could I do the same thing with their trunk as long as they were ok with it.
    Could you elaborate more on this question? I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.
    Making use of storing the unloaded pistol in the trunk of a friends car.

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    I RARELY drink anymore. I can say I have "tied on a buzz" from drinking around 2-3 times over the past year. Once in a while I'll have a beer with my dinner, but even that is rare.

    If I am carrying, or going to be carrying I willNOT have a sip of alcohol. Just something I have decided to live by since I started carrying.

    I went out with the intention of getting drunk a few weeks ago, and left my firearm at home. I called a cab (through Cabman's company) to pick my friends and myself up at my house, and called the cab again when it was time to go home. I even went to The Rocket (the owner is a OC.org member too), and had a great time.

    I think how you handled your situation was perfect Mike. I assume your BAC was below .08 before you got behind the wheel of the car.

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    mikestilly wrote:
    Making use of storing the unloaded pistol in the trunk of a friends car.
    I don't see why you couldn't since youcan transport a weapon for any lawful purpose (example -going from private property to private property).

    In your question though you say "was if I happened to be with someone else carrying and I wasnt driving". If the other person is carrying, are you referring to someone with a CPL? If they weren't drinking (and had a CPL) then I think you could just give them your gun to carry for you.

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    I keep a gun case and spare lock in my vehicle for reasons like this. If I stop to visit a friend, and we get to cracking open a beer or two, I lawfully store my pistol in the locked case.

    I guess my question is what happens if something crazy occurs and you feel endangered to the point that you unlock your pistol, draw, and fire it... while drunk? I know it's far fetched... but let's say you're sitting at a friends house and someone illegally enters and attacks you or someone else with a deadly weapon. Does the fact that you're over the legal limit (to carry a pistol) make it illegal for you to defend yourself with force?

    Again, I know it's far fetched... but I'd like to know how that works. I'm of the school of thought that being drunk is not a crime... therefore carrying, or using, a weapon while drunk is not a crime. If you happen to use the weapon unlawfully, THAT is the crime. And if you use a weapon unlawfully while DRUNK, then that should carry more penalties. But carrying, or using, a weapon that would otherwise be lawful if you WEREN'T drunk should not become a crime simply because you drank. You don't lose your right to self preservation simply because you had a few drinks.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    You can transport it in the locked trunk of a vehicle in which you are a passenger.

    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.

    (excerpt)

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.

    Notice that if you don't have a trunk you MUST separate the ammo from the gun AND have the gun in a LOCKED container or compartment(this is if you have a BAC of .10 or more).

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Veritas wrote:
    I keep a gun case and spare lock in my vehicle for reasons like this. If I stop to visit a friend, and we get to cracking open a beer or two, I lawfully store my pistol in the locked case.

    I guess my question is what happens if something crazy occurs and you feel endangered to the point that you unlock your pistol, draw, and fire it... while drunk? I know it's far fetched... but let's say you're sitting at a friends house and someone illegally enters and attacks you or someone else with a deadly weapon. Does the fact that you're over the legal limit (to carry a pistol) make it illegal for you to defend yourself with force?

    Again, I know it's far fetched... but I'd like to know how that works. I'm of the school of thought that being drunk is not a crime... therefore carrying, or using, a weapon while drunk is not a crime. If you happen to use the weapon unlawfully, THAT is the crime. And if you use a weapon unlawfully while DRUNK, then that should carry more penalties. But carrying, or using, a weapon that would otherwise be lawful if you WEREN'T drunk should not become a crime simply because you drank. You don't lose your right to self preservation simply because you had a few drinks.
    I've considered this scenario many times, and since I don't know for sure what the outcome would be, I normally pass on the alcohol. I think there is potential for real trouble if you were to defend your own home while under the influence. I also think that to have to worry about that is a crock. If I'm in my home, relaxing, having a beer, and someone comes in to threaten my well being, I can't very well say, "just stand there for a few hours while my BAC drops, ok? Thanks".


    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    I do not drink and haven't for 20+ years now. I definitely do not want to be in the vicinity of my firearms if I ever did again.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    not to start anything....but being drunk is a crime!!

    drunk in public is!

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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    I've considered this scenario many times, and since I don't know for sure what the outcome would be, I normally pass on the alcohol. I think there is potential for real trouble if you were to defend your own home while under the influence. I also think that to have to worry about that is a crock. If I'm in my home, relaxing, having a beer, and someone comes in to threaten my well being, I can't very well say, "just stand there for a few hours while my BAC drops, ok? Thanks".

    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    -Richard-

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    office888 wrote:
    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

    -Richard-
    I agree. However, I figure I face judgement either way, so I simply choose to minimize the risk of a crappy judgement...most of the time. Each of us must operate to our own comfort level.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    johnnyd74 wrote:
    not to start anything....but being drunk is a crime!!

    drunk in public is!
    Cite the law, please. I believe you are incorrect.

    If being drunk in public where a crime, then officers could arrest patrons as they leave bars. Heck, they could just go into the bars and arrest them before they even left.

    Being drunk is not a crime. Disorderly conduct is. And you don't have to be drunk ito be disorderly. This business of "Drunk & Disorderly" charges is nonense... I have not found any law on the books that address this. Disorderly Person, yes. Drunk & Disorderly, no.

    I may be wrong... Although I own a Michigan Compiled Law library, I have not read all 36 volumes from cover to cover. I have, however, read the laws that most officers are likely to jam you up with, and nary a word about Drunk & Disorderly Conduct in any of it.

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    Bronson wrote:
    You can transport it in the locked trunk of a vehicle in which you are a passenger.

    28.425k Acceptance of license as implied consent to submit to chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine.

    (excerpt)

    (3) This section does not prohibit an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol who has any bodily alcohol content from transporting that pistol in the locked trunk of his or her motor vehicle or another motor vehicle in which he or she is a passenger or, if the vehicle does not have a trunk, from transporting that pistol unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol or on a vessel if the pistol is transported unloaded in a locked compartment or container that is separated from the ammunition for that pistol.

    Notice that if you don't have a trunk you MUST separate the ammo from the gun AND have the gun in a LOCKED container or compartment (this is if you have a BAC of .10 or more).

    Bronson
    I've often wondered about this and haven't been able to get a straight answer about it: As a CPL holder, whether carrying concealed or not, you have given implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine; correct?

    In other words, if you are a CPL holder and are NOT carrying concealed, you "must" submit to a PBT or chemical test at a hospital or police department? I might be more likely to understand this rule if you were CARRYING CONCEALED at the time of the request. But as far as I'm concerned, if you are not carrying concealed, then your CPL should not bind you to any agreement. Similar to folks who hold a drivers license not being compelled to submit to a chemical analysis unless their DRIVING.

    And by chemical analysis, does this for certain include a PBT?

    I ask these questions because I generally refuse any roadside searches, including PBT's and Field Sobriety Tests. If I'm carrying concealed, must I submit to these? Or is that I have to submit to a chemical test performed at the hospital or police station? And if I'm not carrying concealed, couldn't I refuse everything at that point?

    Understanding that if I'm driving and I refuse a chemical test, my drivers license may be in jeopardy. But my CPL shouldn't if I'm not carrying concealed. And if I'm walking down the street open carrying, or not carrying at all, I should not be compelled to take any chemical exams just because I have a CPL.

  16. #16
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    i carry not to drink. (its a really great excuse for me not to drink since a lot of people i know drink... and i'm not that much of a drinker!) :-D

    my friends and family know that i carry everywhere. they ask me if i want a drink and all i have to do is look at them and they know..... or they can just look at my side....

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    viperar15 wrote:
    its a really great excuse for me not to drink
    A little off topic, but why on earth do you need an excuse to notdrink?

    Bronson


    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Veritas wrote:
    I've often wondered about this and haven't been able to get a straight answer about it: As a CPL holder, whether carrying concealed or not, you have given implied consent to submit to a chemical analysis of breath, blood, or urine; correct?
    I don't know for certain but this is the wording in the MCL.
    (4) A peace officer who has probable cause to believe an individual is carrying a concealed pistol in violation of this section may require the individual to submit to a chemical analysis of his or her breath, blood, or urine.

    I ask these questions because I generally refuse any roadside searches, including PBT's and Field Sobriety Tests. If I'm carrying concealed, must I submit to these? Or is that I have to submit to a chemical test performed at the hospital or police station?
    (5) Before an individual is required to submit to a chemical analysis under subsection (4), the peace officer shall inform the individual of all of the following:

    (a) The individual may refuse to submit to the chemical analysis, but if he or she chooses to do so, all of the following apply:

    (i) The officer may obtain a court order requiring the individual to submit to a chemical analysis.

    (ii) The refusal may result in his or her license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended or revoked.

    (b) If the individual submits to the chemical analysis, he or she may obtain a chemical analysis described in subsection (4) from a person of his or her own choosing.

    (6) The collection and testing of breath, blood, and urine specimens under this section shall be conducted in the same manner that breath, blood, and urine specimens are collected and tested for alcohol- and controlled-substance-related driving violations under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923.

    (7) If a person refuses to take a chemical test authorized under this section, the peace officer shall promptly report the refusal in writing to the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license to the individual to carry a concealed pistol.
    Bronson


    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    office888 wrote:
    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    I've considered this scenario many times, and since I don't know for sure what the outcome would be, I normally pass on the alcohol. I think there is potential for real trouble if you were to defend your own home while under the influence. I also think that to have to worry about that is a crock. If I'm in my home, relaxing, having a beer, and someone comes in to threaten my well being, I can't very well say, "just stand there for a few hours while my BAC drops, ok? Thanks".

    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
    Better to do the right thing (and to avoid the wrong thing) thanto "be judged by 12."

    Alcohol impairs judgment, sometimes very severely. Throw a gun into a bad judgment mix and there is always grief and negativity--often easily avoidable.

    I don't think there is a problem with Taurus850CIA's example. It's other situations that are a problem. Like the Justin Eiler's shooting/killing. Baaaaaaaadddd judgment.

    No fun being "judged by 12" in that case....



    PDinDetroit wrote:
    I do not drink and haven't for 20+ years now. I definitely do not want to be in the vicinity of my firearms if I ever did again.
    One day at a time, brother.

  20. #20
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    (b) If the individual submits to the chemical analysis, he or she may obtain a chemical analysis described in subsection (4) from a person of his or her own choosing.

    So I can choose myself to do the testing, and then submit the results?
    Bet the cop will love that one. I always rode the bike if I was going to have
    a drink. Always thought it was a no brain'r, till I had a car turn left in front
    of me and I won the confrontation. Car
    v Motorcycle is supposed to be car wins.
    I just can't get anything right I guess. :? But I refuse to support the state run
    liquor stores so don't drink. But would make him get the warrant, even if you
    are drunk, at least you would be a lot less drunk by the time they get a judge
    to OK the test, and if sober you made them create a paper trail for your FOIA
    as you gather evidence of 2nd, 4th, and 5th (possibly) violations.

    Now if they ever allow the real stuff to be brought in the country I will
    have a much harder time choosing.


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    ya thats kind what im wondering... so if you are carrying and the leo has reason to belive your under the influence of anything you have to submit a test? first time i heard of this rule. so i have the right to get said test by the person of my chooseing?

    since when do i need totake a drug or alcohol testto carry a gun?

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    joe_robi wrote:
    first time i heard of this rule.
    That should have been covered in your CPL class.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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