Adequate training, education in facts rather than opinions?

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All I can say about this topic is that we all could gain from self protection classes (gun). None of us should ever be forced to take any, but we would all be better off if we did take a few. Superman, he might be left out of this one. I have yet to see him... If you do not understand that, you are a fool, and missed a check box on your Fed. background check.

Rights do not look to need any schooling to have, or to have taken away. Look at our jails... Education looks to have nothing to do with schooling as well, lookat our Government.

As for me, I will take the classes of my choice, and let thelaw sort it out... I have full insurance now...

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comp45acp wrote:

My hope is that the newer and inexperienced members coming on line here looking for guidance and help as they venture out to open carry will not look to your posts as a source of knowledge because you are steering people in the wrong and potentially life changing direction.

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Well, I am glad to hear that. I am not here to train anyone anyways. However, if you would like to speak on my experience, a former Army Ranger, three LEO Academies, 10 years as an armed Bail Enforcement Agent, Corrections Academy, 20 years experience open carrying a hand gun for personal protection. And Yours?

Oh that is right you are a Concealed Carry Weapons Training Advocate.
Now it is clear to all of us, it is all about the money.

To be fair I will say this one more time and I will try to type slow so you understand.
I...was...looking...to ..compare...the ...way ...the ...anti's....look....at....what....they....consider....adequate....training.
The...Tyrannical...Government (And the DNR)....believe....that....Hunters... Safety...is...adequate....training....for...a...10year...old...to...carry....a...high...power...
rifle...for....hunting...and...personal....protection...in...the...woods....whether...it...be...
from...attack...from...animals...or...humans.

Why...would...training...for...an...adult...to...carry...a...hand...gun...for...personal...protection
...require...training....which...would...be...more...stringent?

Get it?

Probably not.:banghead:

If you think that you may never need to use your hunting rifle or shotgun in the woods for self defense, then you really are naive.
People get attacked by animals and hunters while in the woods. So don't tell me that while hunting you may never have to defend yourself. I think it is you who wouldn't pass a class. Like I said you need to comprehend what you read before you jump to criticize.
All you care about is getting the training issue passed in any Bill that comes to the table.
The only posts that any new members need to steer clear of are yours. You want them to believe that training is a necessity and it is not. You would rather mislead them then tell them the truth. You are nothing more than a troll.

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

J.Gleason wrote:

What meets the definition of adequate training?

Hunters safety? It satisfys the general public's opinion of a ten year old carrying a high powered rifle!

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Actually in acordance with the mentoring program, 10 year olds are exempt from any training including hunters safety and are free to kill a deer without it..... They are however required to have a mentor hovering over them and only a single firearm between the two.

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Well there you go, They are exempt from training. And tell me this, do you think that every parent out there that may take their 10 year old hunting is a pillar of society?

Out of all of the parents out there that will take their kid hunting, do you think that any of them are the type that don't really give 2 5hits about what their kids do?

There are plenty of people out there that fit this Bill, that is for sure, so don't think that just because a parent is standing over the kid that they will never do something they are not supposed to do. That is ridiculous. I am not saying that all of them are that way, but there are some that is for sure.

So then if training is not required as you say for a 10 year old to carry a fire arm in a circumstance where some one could be injured or killed, then why should an responsible law abiding adult have to be trained to carry a hand gun?

The only reason is because it is all about the money and nothing more.

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J, I think you are going to scare more away again. I thought we both understood, we will not all agree 100% with you. It is not the end of the world...

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It may not be the end of the world but it is a principled point that, evidently, Lammie, J. Gleason, Nutz and I seem to agree upon. Train, free and for entertainment purposes only, as you will. Kind'a like prostitution without the cost.

When I took my state mandated CWP training, I complimented my instructor, saying "it was the best adult entertainment possible with your clothes on!"

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Doug Huffman wrote:

It may not be the end of the world but it is a principled point that, evidently, Lammie, J. Gleason, Nutz and I seem to agree upon. Train, free and for entertainment purposes only, as you will. Kind'a like prostitution without the cost.

When I took my state mandated CWP training, I complimented my instructor, saying "it was the best adult entertainment possible with your clothes on!"

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Thank you, I knew some one here had to understand the point I was making.

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AaronS wrote:

J, I think you are going to scare more away again. I thought we both understood, we will not all agree 100% with you. It is not the end of the world...

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Not trying to scare anyone away. I think my last post on the issue was pretty clear. I was merely commenting on what the tyrants would consider "Adequate training."

It was Comp who began with the insults.

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Sgt_Habz wrote:

Nutczak wrote:

Hey comp,

Where could I get the formaltraining that you feel everyone needs to exercise their other protected rights? Can I get some 'free Speech Training and a permit to speek freely" How about my "Voter training" What about my mandatory training to refuse an illegal search? Shal I go on?? or do you get the point yet?

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Hmm, to be quite honest, I wish they would have offered your suggested "training" in school. Certainly not mandatory, and certainly not to obtain a "permit," but some real life education on these subjects would have been great.

I'd like to say the same about firearm safety. You don't NEED it to legally exercise your rights, but you're an idiot if you've ever handled/carried a firearm and never gotten any kind of training (formal or informal).

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From what I remember in my hunters-ed class, (I took it whenI was 16 to get a free small game license) the class was one night a week for 2 hours, over several weeks. it focused on firearm and archery safety incuding knowing your target and beyond. tracking wounded animals, field dressing smal and large game. Loading, unloading, we saw firearms that had barrels and chambers explode, showed how a 20GA shell will slide past the chamber of a 12GA gun and become an obstruction,Etc Etc Etc.

My "Firearm Training" to get my FL carrypermit as a FL resident;
The shop I purchased my revolver at offered free range time with the purchase of a new gun, and a few hundred rounds of reloaded wadcutters to go with it.

I asked about the requirements for a carry permit before I used their range, when Iwent to leavefor the day the guy handed me my completed training certificate and asked if I would be interested in their joining their shooting league.
So I basically never sat through the requiredclass! This was also when there was no waiting period for any gun purchase. I would fill out the paperwork, hand them the money, and they sellme the handgun. all done in 5 minutes or less!
So since I have not had any training that you feel is required, does that make me dangerous to the general public? Am I a menace to society now because I O-C every day. Have I left a trail of spent brass and spilled blood wherever I go?

What difference is mandatory training going to make? We can and will be able to open-carry without any training whatsoever, sowhat dynamic of carrying a firearm changeswhen the fiream is not openly viewable?

My only concern is a first-time gun owner, I do know people that might be legal to own a gun, but really shouldn't, or have the ability to reproduce either.
So maybe either a hunters-ed course, or similar "Gunownership course"would be in order for the new owners. The DNR is crying that the hunters numbers are dwindling, so maybe this would be a good way to boost the numbers?

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Here is one less hunter.

My primary stumbling block in rationalizing our firearms ordinance is Jack Hagen's Law that is intended to prohibit rifle hunting beyond the doing-nothing-regularly statutes.

I don't - right now - give a fig about shooting a deer or a turkey. I might hunt a turkey planning on a head shot with a .17. I might hunt a deer with a .308 and a big scope. But shotgun only and blaze orange blue-hairs are just ... turn offs.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Here is one less hunter.

My primary stumbling block in rationalizing our firearms ordinance is Jack Hagen's Law that is intended to prohibit rifle hunting beyond the doing-nothing-regularly statutes.

I don't - right now - give a fig about shooting a deer or a turkey. I might hunt a turkey planning on a head shot with a .17. I might hunt a deer with a .308 and a big scope. But shotgun only and blaze orange blue-hairs are just ... turn offs.

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I definitely agree, the areas that are designated for rifle are just as populated as the areas designated for shotgun. In fact some rifle areas have a larger population. This is just another way that the Department of Neverending Regulation has screwed up this state.

That head shot with a .17 would be awesome!:lol:

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"Aim small. Miss small" A miss at a one square inch target without 'paper' is a clean miss.

Rush SLimbaugh is playing recordings of Ronald Reagan from 40 years ago and I'm tearing up. Hasta...

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J.Gleason wrote:

comp45acp wrote: 

My hope is that the newer and inexperienced members coming on line here looking for guidance and help as they venture out to open carry will not look to your posts as a source of knowledge because you are steering people in the wrong and potentially life changing direction.

Click to expand...

Well, I am glad to hear that. I am not here to train anyone anyways. However, if you would like to speak on my experience, a former Army Ranger, three LEO Academies, 10 years as an armed Bail Enforcement Agent, Corrections Academy, 20 years experience open carrying a hand gun for personal protection. And Yours?

Oh that is right you are a Concealed Carry Weapons Training Advocate.
Now it is clear to all of us, it is all about the money.

To be fair I will say this one more time and I will try to type slow so you understand.
I...was...looking...to ..compare...the ...way ...the ...anti's....look....at....what....they....consider....adequate....training.
The...Tyrannical...Government (And the DNR)....believe....that....Hunters... Safety...is...adequate....training....for...a...10year...old...to...carry....a...high...power...
rifle...for....hunting...and...personal....protection...in...the...woods....whether...it...be...
from...attack...from...animals...or...humans.

Why...would...training...for...an...adult...to...carry...a...hand...gun...for...personal...protection
...require...training....which...would...be...more...stringent?

Get it?

Probably not.:banghead:

If you think that you may never need to use your hunting rifle or shotgun in the woods for self defense, then you really are naive.
People get attacked by animals and hunters while in the woods. So don't tell me that while hunting you may never have to defend yourself. I think it is you who wouldn't pass a class. Like I said you need to comprehend what you read before you jump to criticize.
All you care about is getting the training issue passed in any Bill that comes to the table.
The only posts that any new members need to steer clear of are yours. You want them to believe that training is a necessity and it is not. You would rather mislead them then tell them the truth. You are nothing more than a troll.

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J.Gleason, Even when
I.......read....it....real....slow.....it....still....sounds....like....you....think....that....hunter....safety....training....is...adequate....for....carrying....a....gun....for....self....defense.

You are wrong at any speed J.Gleason. Any carry bill that passes the Wisconsin Legislature will have required training for those that want a permit that will allow you to be exempt from car carry, school zones prohibitions etc. I have decided to no longer respond to any of your posts as it only enables you. You jump on anyone that doesn't agree with your views and refuse to understand what it will take to get a bill passed in this socialist tax hell state. Oh, you didn't answer my question about what elements need to be in place for you to be justified in using deadly force. But then I didn't expect you to know....you haven't been trained!

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comp45acp wrote:

Any carry bill that passes the Wisconsin Legislature will have required training

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Pure conjecture!

What makes you feel that concealing a firearm require mandatory training when open-carry does not?

What dynamic changes between the two methods of carry? Training so maybe some ghetto troll does not shoot off his junk while trying to emulate plaxico burress by carrying without a proper holster?

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Nutczak wrote:

comp45acp wrote:

Any carry bill that passes the Wisconsin Legislature will have required training

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Pure conjecture!

What makes you feel that concealing a firearm require mandatory training when open-carry does not?

What dynamic changes between the two methods of carry? Training so maybe some ghetto troll does not shoot off his junk while trying to emulate plaxico burress by carrying without a proper holster?

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If you would quote just a few more words, it would read.......

for those that want a permit that will allow you to be exempt from car carry, school zones prohibitions etc.

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If you want to be exempt from school zones, you need a permit. WI is not going to issue permits without training. Even if we get a law which allows CCW without a permit, Federal law only exempts armed travel by non felons within the 1000' school victim zone with a permit.

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

If you want to be exempt from school zones, you need a permit. WI is not going to issue permits without training.

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And your crystal ball is telling you this?

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Nutczak wrote:

And your crystal ball is telling you this?

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Please tell me which states currently issue permits with Zero training?:?

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Please let's not feed the training advocate troll.

He obviously can not comprehend what he reads or he would understand that it is not I who believes Hunters Safety would be adequate but the tyrannical government.

And by the way he has not offered up what his training consists of either.

Obviously he didn't comprehend what he read or he would know what my training history is.

So again, please don't feed the training troll.

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

Nutczak wrote:

And your crystal ball is telling you this?

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Please tell me which states currently issue permits with Zero training?:?

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Vt\AK

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J.Gleason wrote:

Interceptor_Knight wrote:

Please tell me which states currently issue permits with Zero training?:?

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VtAK

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You may carry without a permit in AK, but in order to get a permit for reciprocity purposes you must show proof of training within the past year.

http://www.dps.state.ak.us/statewide/PermitsLicensing/achpfaq.aspx

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

Nutczak wrote:

comp45acp wrote:

Any carry bill that passes the Wisconsin Legislature will have required training

Click to expand...

Pure conjecture!

What makes you feel that concealing a firearm require mandatory training when open-carry does not?

What dynamic changes between the two methods of carry? Training so maybe some ghetto troll does not shoot off his junk while trying to emulate plaxico burress by carrying without a proper holster?

Click to expand...

If you would quote just a few more words, it would read.......

for those that want a permit that will allow you to be exempt from car carry, school zones prohibitions etc.

Click to expand...

If you want to be exempt from school zones, you need a permit. WI is not going to issue permits without training. Even if we get a law which allows CCW without a permit, Federal law only exempts armed travel by non felons within the 1000' school victim zone with a permit.

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States

"Opt-Out" statutes ("Gun-Free Zones") Many states (e.g., Minnesota, South Carolina, Texas), in addition to outright bans on concealed carry in some or all of the places mentioned above, allow any business to post a specific sign (language and format vary by state) prohibiting concealed carry, violation of which is grounds for revocation of the offender's concealed carry permit. In Texas for instance, the applicable statute is Section 30.06 of the Texas Penal Code, and requires that a sign in contrasting colors, with letters at least 1inch (25.4mm) high, with exactly the following text in both English and Spanish, be posted at every entrance to a business prohibiting concealed carry:
"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."[34][/sup] By posting the signs, businesses create areas where it is illegal to carry a concealed handgun similar to schools, hospitals, and public events. In addition to signage, virtually all jurisdictions also allow some form of oral communication by the lawful owner or controller of the property that a person is not welcome and should leave. This notice can be given to anyone for any reason, including due to the carrying of firearms by that person, and refusal to heed such a request to leave constitutes trespassing. In some jurisdictions trespass by a person carrying a firearm may have more severe penalties than "simple" trespass.
So why invest in all of the training and fees, we might as well just stick to OCW.
If you don't think it could be this way in good ole Wisconsin, then think again.