Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: Wanting to start oc, but have a few questions

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Fox Valley Area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    I am a avid young gun owner who has never had any bad involvement with the law. I want to start OC, but don't want to get arrested. I know public buildings, 1000ft school, and places with alcohol clauses, but my main concern is carrying in businesses. I know you have to look for signs and leave if asked, but how do you holster your gun when you arrive in your car? I have a std cab pickup so my guns all have to be in the bed so they are out of "lunge" distance, so can you open the case, load the mag, and holster while standing open in the parking lot?

  2. #2
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,668

    Post imported post

    bluev8s10 wrote:
    ...you open the case, load the mag, and holster while standing open in the parking lot?
    Yes, but how "open" you are is up to you. You can always shield your actions with your open door. Generally when you're between your own vehicle and another parked next to you, there isn't much room for others to observe something that takes 5 seconds to do at a casual pace.

    We can thank the stupid vehicle transport law for all this.

    IMO, a firearm in case is "out of reach."
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Fox Valley Area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    I kinda figured on loading it trying to not cause attention, but i thought that might look suspicious also. The only real reason I want to OC is that i like having my pistol on me for safety and would love conceal carry, and figure the more people who OC and inform, the better.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,170

    Post imported post

    Please do not carry firearms in the back of an open truck, you're just asking for them to be stolen (or "redistrubuted" if using current democratic party language)

    The way the vehicle law reads, itdoes not state that firearmscannot be in the passenger compartment of a vehicle.

    But the firearm needs to be completly emclosed in a case when in or on a vehicle, so loading and unloading on a tailgate could be a citable offense.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Fox Valley Area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    The only time my guns are in the bed are when i go to the range, which i also have a locking fiberglass flat tonneau cover plus locking gate and never stop anywhere. I usually keep a pistol cased behind the seat kinda wedged by the seat so you really couldn't get it while in the vehicle. I'm just trying to figure out can you open the case on the driver seat while you are out of the car and load while out of the car with the door open.

  6. #6
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497

    Post imported post

    bluev8s10 wrote:
    I kinda figured on loading it trying to not cause attention, but i thought that might look suspicious also. The only real reason I want to OC is that i like having my pistol on me for safety and would love conceal carry, and figure the more people who OC and inform, the better.

    I will add that you should be ready for the people that want to know more about OC. About every 4th time I shop, I get some person asking me about it. I keep three fliers in my back pocket just for this.

    I drive an FJ cruiser (rear swing out door, not tail gate), so I guess my door "hides" me a bit, but I try not to. I use a soft case now (I think it is faster for me), and I pop the mag in , rack the slide, put the hammer down (I carry a dbl action) and get it in my holster, super fast. I never look around during the action, I just mind my own (well I guess I do a quick look to see who is around me at the time)... I wound not change a thing, even with a cop behind me. The unload is a little slower, but it is still not slow, I take the time to put the round back in the mag before I get back in the truck...

    But, if you take a bold stand, you should watch this a few times, and make sure you understand this problem.

    http://www.vimeo.com/6115265

    I have to say, I have not had any problems at all yet. People do look at ya a bit...


  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,709

    Post imported post

    bluev8s10:

    First, WELCOME to the forum, checkout the threads, read a little about what others are doing, and carry on.

    Second, for simplicity, we cannot carry (cars, bars, government buildings, state parks, and 1000ft of school property when on public property). We can carry on ALL private property unless, as you stated, it is posted.

    I don't "look" for signs, if it ain't glaring right at me, in I go. If they don't want me there, they let me know.

    A good active retention holster is also a plus, I carry a blackhawk serpa-2 holster, same one many LEO use.

    When carrying a pistol, I carry in condition-3. I remove the case, open it,holster the firearm, insert magazine, place case ondriver side floor. Make double sure, as it gets colder that your coat doesn't hang over the firearm. When returning to the vehicle, I retrieve the case,un-holster, drop the loaded mag right into the case, insert the now unloaded firearm, close the case, andplace case"out of reach" in vehicle. As shotgun stated, it is a 5 second procedure that I almost always do with the driver's side door open.

    Some have suggested grabbing a kart or basket when entering the store, giving you something to do with your hands. I say, simply go about your business (as if unarmed) and most people won't even notice. If someone does notice/ask, then having the attached pamphlet to hand themwill provide assurance to the uneducated, that OC is 100% legal.

    The majority of us who carry do not have law enforcement interaction. Afew of us, me included, have. If you do, be polite and courteous, but NEVER willing surrender you sidearm. Other threads here cover the "don't talk to police" and "Am I being detained" view points I encourage you to read them.

    After that, holster up and carry on...

    EDIT: DON'T FORGET to sign the online petition to against the school zone and vehicle restrictions.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    3,481

    Post imported post

    bluev8s10 wrote:
    The only time my guns are in the bed are when i go to the range, which i also have a locking fiberglass flat tonneau cover plus locking gate and never stop anywhere. I usually keep a pistol cased behind the seat kinda wedged by the seat so you really couldn't get it while in the vehicle. I'm just trying to figure out can you open the case on the driver seat while you are out of the car and load while out of the car with the door open.
    NO! If you do this you have a fire arm unencased and within your reach inside of your vehicle.

    Until you get a little more familiar, here is what I recommend. IANAL but,....
    Take the case out of your vehicle, open it, remove the fire arm, holster the fire arm, load the mag, return your case to the vehicle. Now you may rack the slide and chamber a round or you may leave the fire arm as it is (Condition 3).

    In condition 3 you must remember to rack the slide as you draw your weapon should you need to draw the weapon for self defense.

    Please do not carry your fire arms in the bed of your truck, If someone sees you doing this and follows you to a store or home and observes you have not removed them, they could very well steal those fire arms from the back of your truck.

    I can be in the back of your truck, even though it is locked, in less then 5 minutes and there are criminals out there that are much better at it then I am.

    Carry your fire arms encased and in the cab of your truck but as far away from you as possible inside the cab. If you are that worried about it put a lock on your case.

    Watch all of these videos:

    Don't Talk To Cops Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

    Don't Talk To Cops Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

    The Right Way To handle A Police Stop
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk

    The Wrong Way To Handle A Police Stop
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCe6nQUX5c

    Traffic Stop/ Know Your Rights TV EP.4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrFvpMgL9EE

    How To Refuse A Police Search
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyokKFIecIo

    How do I Keep Police From Searching My Car?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpaNhfOyvAQ

    Busted: The Citizen's Guide To Surviving Police Encounters
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

    How To Act If You Are Stopped By The Police
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShMDT0NmPms

    Fork In The Wisconsin Gun Law / Transportation Of Fire Arms by Doug Huffman
    http://www.vimeo.com/6115265

    JPFO Video / No Guns for African Americanes download page
    http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ngn-download-view.htm

    JPFO Video / 2A For the USA download page
    http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/2a-today-download.htm

    Here are some video's that actually tell the truth when it comes to Bull%hit Gun Control Laws.


    Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCXtfR0_roE

    Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtqufzEFCzw

    Bull sh#t on Gun Laws Part 3
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoIKlO20RqM

    Anti Gun Politicians get OWNED!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis

    By the way welcome to the forum and

    Carry On!

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran logan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Greeley, CO
    Posts
    433

    Post imported post

    You may want to just set the case on the ground while you open it and get the weapon out. Same for putting it back in the case. Because you cannot set it on the ground. Otherwise practice casing and uncasing it in the air.

    As bnhcomputing suggested, you may want to grab a cart and go grocery shopping or something your first time. If you are pushing around a cart of groceries, I sure hope nobody is stupid enough to think you are about to commit a crime. Or depending on where you are from, you might be able to find somebody close to you to go shopping together to break you in. Most people never even notice. Those few that do, normally don't say anything. Might look a little scared or just wonder why you have it, but I've never been talked to myself. I normally just carry when I go to Wal-Mart, I don't go many other places very often. If I go somewhere quick I think it's more of a pain just to holster up so I just leave it.

    I also always carry a pamphlet with me just in case somebody asks questions.



    Logan - Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable
    Walther PPS 9mm, Ruger LCP
    CC permits: MN, FL, NH, PA and CO

    Member of:
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc., Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, and National Rifle Association

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Fox Valley Area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    I have a soft zip case that has the cloth pouch to hold in place and is easy to pull out and holster while holding.

    Now I was wondering do most people carry short barreled smaller pistols, because I am thinking of carrying a Taurus PT-92 stainless, which I am wondering is a good choice because of size and flash. I like it because when holstered the grip keeps all of my shirts and sweatshirts from riding over it so it won't get accidentally concealed, plus it is one of my cheaper pistols so if something were to happen it wouldn't be a great loss. I have no problem with its size or weight loaded in the holster.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,319

    Post imported post

    Welcome to the forum.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Fox Valley Area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    Another question, my friend lives about a long city block i would guess just under 1000 feet from elementry school, is there any way to go for walk starting at his house?

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,319

    Post imported post

    bluev8s10 wrote:
    Another question, my friend lives about a long city block i would guess just under 1000 feet from elementry school, is there any way to go for walk starting at his house?
    Not legally.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Fox Valley Area, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    7

    Post imported post

    Now I wonder how hard they would enforce it because the school is a block down and around a corner and not in direct view.

  15. #15
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497

    Post imported post

    bluev8s10 wrote:
    I have a soft zip case that has the cloth pouch to hold in place and is easy to pull out and holster while holding.

    Now I was wondering do most people carry short barreled smaller pistols, because I am thinking of carrying a Taurus PT-92 stainless, which I am wondering is a good choice because of size and flash. I like it because when holstered the grip keeps all of my shirts and sweatshirts from riding over it so it won't get accidentally concealed, plus it is one of my cheaper pistols so if something were to happen it wouldn't be a great loss. I have no problem with its size or weight loaded in the holster.
    I am looking at my PT-92 (Gen.1) now, I have had it for about 20 years or so now. I still love it. I carry it when ever I need a jacket, or coat. I like the full size, but I also like my full size 1911. My day to day warm weather gun is a little Beretta in .40 cal.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,709

    Post imported post

    bluev8s10 wrote:
    Now I wonder how hard they would enforce it because the school is a block down and around a corner and not in direct view.
    My bet is they WOULD ENFORCE! That law was not passed to deter the criminals, but rather restrict law abiding citizens. That is why we need EVERYONE to sign the petition!

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    J.Gleason wrote:
    Fork In The Wisconsin Gun Law / Transportation Of Fire Arms by Doug Huffman
    http://www.vimeo.com/6115265
    Do you understand that you cannot make an entirely legal transition between legal vehicle carry and legal open carry, that you will briefly have either a concealed weapon in your possession or an illegally carried-in/on-a-vehicle weapon?

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    3,481

    Post imported post

    Are you asking me or the OP?

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    OP - I would hope/wish obviously. You posted a lot of video material and OP has given no indication that he viewed it with a critical eye.

    This is the problem with video as discourse, that Americans view tele-video passively and as entertainment.


  20. #20
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,668

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    Fork In The Wisconsin Gun Law / Transportation Of Fire Arms by Doug Huffman
    http://www.vimeo.com/6115265
    Do you understand that you cannot make an entirely legal transition between legal vehicle carry and legal open carry, that you will briefly have either a concealed weapon in your possession or an illegally carried-in/on-a-vehicle weapon?
    A ridiculous claim that requires the idea that a gun inside a gun case is an illegally concealed gun. I don't recall hundreds of thousands of hunters being arrested every year for CCW, all of whom make perfectly legal transfers of their firearms from and to their vehicles.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  21. #21
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,668

    Post imported post

    protias wrote:
    bluev8s10 wrote:
    Another question, my friend lives about a long city block i would guess just under 1000 feet from elementry school, is there any way to go for walk starting at his house?
    Not legally.
    Not true. The school zone statute allows one to possess unloaded and encased firearms inside a school zone. Once your friend has walked outside of the "school zone" he simply removes the firearm from the case, "locks and loads," holsters, and continues his walk. Just be certain that the case meets the legal definition found in Ch. 137.31 (1)(b).
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    I ANAL

    941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.

    Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s. 939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission warden.

    History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.
    [ ... ]
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    Please don't argue with me or lead the OP astray.

  23. #23
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,668

    Post imported post

    An encased firearm is neither hidden nor within reach. The Hamdan opinion acknowledges that there are times when a person may be required to "conceal" a firearm out of necessity in order to facilitate the right to bear arms.

    During oral arguments the justices had a fairly clear discussion about taking the consequences of taking the language of the concealed weapons statute and elements of CCW too literally. It leads to absurd conclusions such as "having a steak knife in a closed kitchen drawer" is a violation of the law. Or having "a gun in a gun vault" is concealing a weapon, but having one in an glass gun case is not.

    Your argument is leading people astray. If you're so confident in your position, why not report those hunters as they return to their vehicles and see how eager LEOs are to write citations for CCW?
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Osceola, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    26

    Post imported post

    Hey fellas

    I'm a new 'legal' pistol owner, as I have just this year turned 21 and purchased my Ruger P95, but have had pistols since I was about 16, grandfathered to me from family members. I was going to OC on a walk with my dog, but wasn't exactly sure if I was outside the legal '1000ft' zone of my school, since I live in a small community and the school was within easy walking distance. I found that you can use Google earth, and the ruler tool, if you know the edge of the school's property, to mark out 1000ft in any direction of your choosing. I found that I was actually almost 2000ft away from the school's property zone! It's a great tool to use, and it's free! I don't know why I never thought of using it before, but it can be a great visual reference as well if you are very familiar with where you live, as I am.

    Here's the link for the download
    http://earth.google.com/
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid about?"
    -Unknown

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    Making 'conclusions' in law is the very definition of practicing law; I-ANAL

    I posted a quotation of the law as an observation and on point information.

    I have done my best to make a purely logical argument based on only a narrow and ignorant reading of the law.

    My town cop has not assured me that I will not be harassed for/while complying with the law as you and I know it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •