• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Wanting to start oc, but have a few questions

Shotgun

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

protias wrote:
bluev8s10 wrote:
Another question, my friend lives about a long city block i would guess just under 1000 feet from elementry school, is there any way to go for walk starting at his house?
Click to expand...
Not legally.
Click to expand...
Not true. The school zone statute allows one to possess unloaded and encased firearms inside a school zone. Once your friend has walked outside of the "school zone" he simply removes the firearm from the case, "locks and loads," holsters, and continues his walk. Just be certain that the case meets the legal definition found in Ch. 137.31 (1)(b).
 
D

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
imported post

I ANAL

941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.

Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s. 939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission warden.

History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.
[ ... ]
To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
Click to expand...
Please don't argue with me or lead the OP astray.
 
Shotgun

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

An encased firearm is neither hidden nor within reach. The Hamdan opinion acknowledges that there are times when a person may be required to "conceal" a firearm out of necessity in order to facilitate the right to bear arms.

During oral arguments the justices had a fairly clear discussion about taking the consequences of taking the language of the concealed weapons statute and elements of CCW too literally. It leads to absurd conclusions such as "having a steak knife in a closed kitchen drawer" is a violation of the law. Or having "a gun in a gun vault" is concealing a weapon, but having one in an glass gun case is not.

Your argument is leading people astray. If you're so confident in your position, why not report those hunters as they return to their vehicles and see how eager LEOs are to write citations for CCW?
 
V

vin_w88

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
26
Location
Osceola, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Hey fellas

I'm a new 'legal' pistol owner, as I have just this year turned 21 and purchased my Ruger P95, but have had pistols since I was about 16, grandfathered to me from family members. I was going to OC on a walk with my dog, but wasn't exactly sure if I was outside the legal '1000ft' zone of my school, since I live in a small community and the school was within easy walking distance. I found that you can use Google earth, and the ruler tool, if you know the edge of the school's property, to mark out 1000ft in any direction of your choosing. I found that I was actually almost 2000ft away from the school's property zone! It's a great tool to use, and it's free! I don't know why I never thought of using it before, but it can be a great visual reference as well if you are very familiar with where you live, as I am.

Here's the link for the download
http://earth.google.com/
 
D

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
imported post

Making 'conclusions' in law is the very definition of practicing law; I-ANAL

I posted a quotation of the law as an observation and on point information.

I have done my best to make a purely logical argument based on only a narrow and ignorant reading of the law.

My town cop has not assured me that I will not be harassed for/while complying with the law as you and I know it.
 
Shotgun

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Doug Huffman wrote:
Making 'conclusions' in law is the very definition of practicing law; I-ANAL

I posted a quotation of the law as an observation and on point information.

I have done my best to make a purely logical argument based on only a narrow and ignorant reading of the law.

My town cop has not assured me that I will not be harassed for/while complying with the law as you and I know it.
Click to expand...
The "conclusion" that you've made is that it is impossible to transport a firearm in Wisconsin by vehicle without breaking at least one law. Do you know any lawyers who have reached the same conclusion as you?

If your conclusion is true, then the only way to legally transport a firearm from the point of purchase is to holster up, or shoulder arms or sling arms and WALK to your house, whatever distance it is... carefully avoiding all school zones along the way. That would be an absurdity.

Therefore, it's either an absurd law, or, an absurd interpretation and conclusion of the law. Or both. I think the law is flawed and unconstitutional, but I don't believe it leads to the conclusion that you've reached. Your argument is very similar to the inflexible unrealistic sort that every supreme court justice, including the most liberal, Shirley Abrahamson, shook his or head about during the Hamdan case, i.e., a reductio ad incommodum resulting from reading of the CCW law so literal that it no longer is in accordance with common sense.
 
D

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
imported post

From far away and not so long ago...

JKTex wrote:
I hope you spend some time and understand what you can and cannot do in YOUR state. Blanket statements get those who are too lazy to learn their own states laws, into deep doo doo. I don't know of a case yet was won based on, "...but this guy on the internet said I could...". :celebrate
Click to expand...
 
Shotgun

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Doug Huffman wrote:
Making 'conclusions' in law is the very definition of practicing law; I-ANAL
Click to expand...
That may be how you define it, Doug. But that's not how the State of Wisconsin defines it.

For all you I-ANAL people:

"Every person who appears as agent, representative or attorney, for or on behalf of any other person, or any firm, partnership, association or corporation in any action or proceeding in or before any court of record, circuit or supplemental court commissioner, or judicial tribunal of the United States, or of any state, or who otherwise, in or out of court, for compensation or pecuniary reward gives professional legal advice not incidental to his or her usual or ordinary business, or renders any legal service for any other person, or any firm, partnership, association or corporation, shall be deemed to be practicing law within the meaning of this section."

In other words, you and I and everyone else here can draw all the conclusions of law and dispense as much free legal advice as we desire. Of course free advice may or may not be worth what you paid for it.
Caveat emptor!
 
Shotgun

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
imported post

Doug Huffman wrote:
From far away and not so long ago...

JKTex wrote:
I hope you spend some time and understand what you can and cannot do in YOUR state. Blanket statements get those who are too lazy to learn their own states laws, into deep doo doo. I don't know of a case yet was won based on, "...but this guy on the internet said I could...". :celebrate
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Hundreds of thousands of transfers of firearms from and to vehicles every year indicate what you can and cannot do in Wisconsin. Simple empirical data. No Internet, only common sense, required.
 
Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

Doug Huffman wrote:
J.Gleason wrote:
Fork In The Wisconsin Gun Law / Transportation Of Fire Arms by Doug Huffman
http://www.vimeo.com/6115265
Click to expand...
Do you understand that you cannot make an entirely legal transition between legal vehicle carry and legal open carry, that you will briefly have either a concealed weapon in your possession or an illegally carried-in/on-a-vehicle weapon?
Click to expand...



In Michigan we have a statute that states without a CPL you can not have ANY FIREARMS on the premises of any place that has a liquor license.

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.



So my question is whenever a non-CPL holding hunter transports his/her guns to camp and stops off at a store to buy supplies (including say beer) or stops at a gas station (One that sells beer and wine)to fill uphis/her car, or stops at a Kroger or Meijor's store to get hunting suppliesis he/shein violation of the law?

Or they buy a gun at a large box store that also sell groceries including beer and wine, how do you get the gun to the parking lot and then transport it home?

Every state has flaws in their laws. That's why we need to bug our reps to correct them.
 
P

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
imported post

Venator wrote:
Doug Huffman wrote:
J.Gleason wrote:
Fork In The Wisconsin Gun Law / Transportation Of Fire Arms by Doug Huffman
http://www.vimeo.com/6115265
Click to expand...
Do you understand that you cannot make an entirely legal transition between legal vehicle carry and legal open carry, that you will briefly have either a concealed weapon in your possession or an illegally carried-in/on-a-vehicle weapon?
Click to expand...



In Michigan we have a statute that states without a CPL you can not have ANY FIREARMS on the premises of any place that has a liquor license.

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.



So my question is whenever a non-CPL holding hunter transports his/her guns to camp and stops off at a store to buy supplies (including say beer) or stops at a gas station (One that sells beer and wine)to fill uphis/her car, or stops at a Kroger or Meijor's store to get hunting suppliesis he/shein violation of the law?

Or they buy a gun at a large box store that also sell groceries including beer and wine, how do you get the gun to the parking lot and then transport it home?

Every state has flaws in their laws. That's why we need to bug our reps to correct them.
Click to expand...
In Wisconsin, we can carry into places that sell alcohol, just not where it is served for consumption. Wisconsin Stat. § 941.237
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top