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Thread: Women aim for protection in female-only concealed pistol classes

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    I'm amazed that women are at 25% of total CWPs in Michigan....

    Nice little trend?

    I hope so. We need to have as many women as possible adopt gun carrying. It's of strategic importance...as well as simply the right thing for women to protect themselves in this day and age....



    Women aim for protection in female-only concealed pistol classes
    By Howard Meyerson | The Grand Rapids Press
    October 25, 2009, 7:30AM




    Cory Olsen | The Grand Rapids Press

    NRA-certified instructor Lee Zeidler, left, works with LeAnn Finkbeiner of Gun Lake on the correct shooting stance during a concealed pistol certification class at Caledonia Sportsman's Club.

    CALEDONIA -- Lee Zeidler was calm as he spoke to the women, each armed with a pistol, ready to fire. They stood nervously on the line at the Caledonia Sportsman's Club pistol range. The pungent smell of gunpowder hung in the air.

    They were a mixed group of women, from their early 20s to mid-60s, all prepared mentally and emotionally for the next step.

    Most had come to learn how to defend themselves. Others feared losing that right some time in the future.



    Cory Olsen |The Grand Rapids Press

    Students perform a close-range firing drill during a class at Caledonia Sportsman's Club.

    "Get the gun up. Take a breath. Halfway out, hold it, and you will have a nice, steady shot," Zeidler said in the practiced way of a National Rifle Association-certified gun instructor.

    The women fired on command, some flinching, some squinting, some closing their eyes, but round after round found the paper targets.

    Crissy Klemkosky was smiling when she finished using a .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol.

    "I love it," Klemkosky said. "Last week, I shot with the .22, the 9 millimeter, the .38 and .45. I shot best with the .45. It seemed to fit me."

    Zeidler was not surprised.

    "It's the gun with the most knockdown power," he said. "(The women) are scared in the beginning and start with the .22 and 9 millimeter, but they find out the .45 won't hurt them. It points easy and is fairly accurate. Most say they feel empowered."

    Klemkosky is among 50 women who signed up for the required course to obtain a license to carry a concealed handgun in Michigan. The female-only class was sponsored by Great Lakes Outdoors Foundation, a 2-year-old nonprofit organization with Zeidler as executive director.



    Cory Olsen | The Grand Rapids Press

    Instructor Gary Vander Meulen, left, helps students load bullets into clips.

    The group works to introduce women and youngsters to outdoor recreation and shooting sports. Funding for the class, which the women took free, came from a grant provided by the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners Foundation Civil Defense Fund.

    "My dad is the one who brought up the idea of carrying," said LeAnn Finkbeiner, 25, of Delton. "I don't know that I will carry all the time, but I will carry when I am out running."

    Finkbeiner's concern is not uncommon. Each woman has her reasons.

    "I had a vacuum salesman push the door open and frighten me a lot, enough to call the police," Freeport resident Joyce Reynhout said. "I thought I should go ahead and do this."

    Recent media stories about home invasions also made some of the women nervous.

    Bill Brassard, communications director for the Connecticut-based National Shooting Sports Foundation, said the demand for concealed pistol classes has increased nationwide. The organization offers its own "First Shots" pistol program through local gun clubs across the U.S.

    "We have had over 10,000 people go through the program, and half of those have been women," Brassard said. "We are hearing these classes are filling with women all across the country."



    Cory Olsen | The Grand Rapids Press

    Students Rebecca Bosma, right, of Kentwood and Cyndee Van Der Heide (face not shown) of Grand Rapids fire pistols on the range.

    Their reasons for buying pistols vary, but most do it for self-protection, Brassard said. Seventy-four percent of the women in the NSSF program bought a pistol for self defense, according to a July 2009 NSSF report.

    The other reasons for purchase included target shooting (63 percent), hunting (8 percent) and collecting (2 percent).

    Michigan women are increasingly looking to carry. Zeidler said 25 percent of the state's 211,000 concealed weapons permit holders are female.

    "They come for all sorts of reasons," Zeidler said. "A lot of them say they need some extra protection."

    Diana Living of Grand Ledge was one who feared she might lose her right to own a concealed weapon because of President Barack Obama's administration. However, she could not identify any White House or congressional proposals that could take away her right to carry a concealed weapon.

    "I think we could lose the right to carry, given the liberal slant our country is taking," Living said. "I'm taking this class to get grandfathered in. That is primary, and self-defense."

    The 10-hour course was split between class and range time. Classroom hours covered personal protection strategies in the home, the ins and outs of the permitting process and an in-depth examination of the laws that govern those with licenses.

    "Using deadly force is the last thing you want to do," said Michael Bell, an attorney working with the MCRGO Foundation. "It's always better to call the police."

    Bell spent two hours of the class reviewing Michigan's Concealed Pistol License Law.

    The women also spent several hours on the pistol range, learning to load and shoot from different positions, including kneeling behind a barrel that simulated shooting from behind a dresser or other cover during a home invasion.

    "It was clear from the course that using deadly force is a privilege. But it is also a great responsibility," said one Middleville woman who asked not be identified but called herself a pistol-packing granny.

    "I'm not a physically strong person," she said. "So I was surprised at how well I did with just a small amount of training (on the range)."




    http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/index....ion_in_co.html










  2. #2
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    Thanks for posting this HT. I was going to post it earlier this morning and chose not to for fear of being bitch-slapped.

    Though the comments are mostly positive, I wonder what they would entail had the article not been female specific?

    Kudos to Caledonia Sportsman's Club

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Teaching them to execute the perp while bleeding on the ground? :shock:

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Looks like shooting at a place that has no berm
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Heya Doug. That is the SAME thing they told us here in the S.C. CWP/CPL class. Keep shooting until the threat is stopped. As long as the perp chooses to move he/she is still a threat. We even ran drills for it. Reloading half way through a magazine while staying aimed/drawn down on the bad guy. After reloading the instructor yelled out "I'm gonna get you" and we fired AGAIN.


    dougwg wrote:


    Teaching them to execute the perp while bleeding on the ground? :shock:

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    That makes sense... I shot at an indoor range in my class so we did not have that option.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    Teaching them to execute the perp while bleeding on the ground? :shock:
    No. Crotch-shot practice. They're visualizing the perp right in front of them. The targets five feet away on the groundare just for proper angle reference.

    That's my theory.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Teaching them to execute the perp while bleeding on the ground? :shock:
    No. Crotch-shot practice. They're visualizing the perp right in front of them. The targets five feet away on the groundare just for proper angle reference.

    That's my theory.
    Just playing devils advocate....

  9. #9
    Regular Member Harper1227's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    DanM wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Teaching them to execute the perp while bleeding on the ground? :shock:
    No. Crotch-shot practice. They're visualizing the perp right in front of them. The targets five feet away on the groundare just for proper angle reference.

    That's my theory.
    Just playing devils advocate....
    i am 100% for this. I don't know the actual reason behind that specific firing position but I could imagine that would be my response to someone coming up my stairs!

    there needs tobe (if there isnt already) a realistic women specific set ofsenarios (with paint balls or some other less dangerous method) where a woman/person can try to defend from vulnerable positions - a trainer/perp grabs you from behind or you have to fire from the ground up at an attacker.

    better yet, i would like a tactical trainingsenario to train me how to deal with an atatcker/threat when i have my two kids with me.

  10. #10
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Harper1227 wrote:
    better yet, i would like a tactical trainingsenario to train me how to deal with an atatcker/threat when i have my two kids with me.
    If it's a non-immediate threat, you face toward the threat,your kidsget behind you and run the opposite direction, and you back away from the threat as rapidly as possible.

    If it's an immediate threat, your kids should dropto the ground at the sight or sound of a weapon or your command,and you attempt to neutralize the threat.

    Just some ideas. There are probably other ideas. Butyou're not training them on how to handle weapons defensively or combat-type tactics.Just simply following your commands or developed habitsingetting away from the violence or dropping to the ground to avoid as much of the physical dangeras possible. I think you couldjust do the training with them yourself, really.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Looks like shooting at a place that has no berm
    The berms are just very low, so it's necessary to shoot at that angle.

    No other reason why they are shooting at that angle.

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    Damn!

    Why can't my 20-yo self meet a lovely lady like this?



    -Richard-

  13. #13
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Thanks for posting this HT. I was going to post it earlier this morning and chose not to for fear of being bitch-slapped.

    Though the comments are mostly positive, I wonder what they would entail had the article not been female specific?

    Kudos to Caledonia Sportsman's Club
    Stuff like this story interests me since it's a marker in the diffusion process of guns/carry by citizens in the U.S.

    Also, there is variation in the diffusion between states. Michigan seems to be where a lot of the action is happening. And that's a good thing for the entire pro-guns/carry communities.

    The female thing was the hook, for sure. But the story isn't diminished by that.

    25%.....that seems much higher than I would have thought.....I wonder how that compares to other states........ Anybody know?



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