imported post
First off I want to say that in no way am I trying to personally attack anyone or you, Marine300. But I am attacking facts that have been said on this site. If attacking facts that you said is in essence attacking you than I am sorry you feel that way. But if that is the case, then saying untrue facts about Wichita, the dumb cops, and misunderstanding the intent of the city code is also in essence attacking me. The way I look at it, so far everyone I've seen on here supports each other on our quest for our 2nd amendment rights. The only thing we are in difference is how the city attorneys and police are enforcing the current gun laws. That is up to debate but nothing else.
Second, I bring up points that others (not me) will have issues with open carry but both Marine300 and Sonora attacked these statements as if I believe or stated them. If I said "some people" believe President Obama is a great president, don't go attacking me when in fact I think he is a lunatic and I helped on the presidential campaign for Huckabee and have been a die hard right wing conservative who supports gun rights. Guys perception is reality and by saying "You and I both know that criminals never carry openly," is your perception but you are not stating any facts to back that up because the left could easily say "criminals will do whatever the law allows them too just like you and I can". So who would be right and why? The key is we have to give data and facts that educated the left not random opinionated statements with to facts or at least clout that what you are saying is reasonable because of your professional experience etc.
So, lets look at the facts. Senora Rebel mentioned a 40 year old law but didn't go into much detail when he said "You and I both know that the Gun Control Act of 1968 as detailed in 18USC and duplicated in nearly every State law prohibits certain persons from possessing, much less bearing arms for the common good" Well it he says "certain" so lets find out what "certain" really means and how it is applied in Kansas and not Arkansas. According to our new CCL license the only people that could NOT carry a gun on the streets are:
1) 21 years old
2) someone who had tried to commit suicide in the past 2 years.
3) A citizen of the United States
4) A resident of Kansas for 6 months.
5) No Felony convictions (misdemeanors like assault on a law enforcement officer or a gang related fight, tagging, etc is fine!)
6) No DV charges
7) No carry concealed convictions within the past 5 years.
8) Two Dui's within the past 5 years.
9) No drug convictions within the past 5 years.
10) Physical deformities that would prevent you from safe handling.
11) A judged disabled.
12) Any current pending charges for felony, or DV charges.
13) Dishonorable discharge from the military.
14) Contempt of court in regards to Child Support.
15) Certain applicable restraining orders
16) Adjudicated or committed as having a mental disorder.
17) Ordered by court to receive treatment for mental illness or drug abuse
This is it folks, this is all she wrote. Now, looking at this list where does it say that a known self admitting gang member cannot get a carry concealed license? Keep in mind being a known gang member is not a crime in Kansas and you don't have to have been found guilty of a felony to be entered into the city computer at a known gang member. And if you say "that would not happen" would you be willing to sign a document with a liberal democrat that if one single gang member EVER got a license and then lawfully open carried that you would agree to make Kansas a Non carry concealed state forever? If you are not able to make such an agreement then you can't convince that left wings that it won't happen because you need to data or proof that it couldn't.
Here is another side point, keep mind my personal friend is the one that drafted up the CCL laws. Some of them are silly like #14 that if you owe child support you can't get a carry concealed. My personal opinion is that this is silly that if you are an outstanding citizen but lost your job and get back on child support payments you can't carry concealed but if you are known gang member you can! I asked him about this and he said that when making laws you sit down with bleeding liberals at a table and in order to get laws passed you have to concede and agree on issue in order to pass it no matter how silly it is. You can't just spit stuff like "that would never happen" without any facts or data to back it up. If you think it would never happen then fine, back up and put it to law that if it did this or that would happen. You have to acknowledge the liberals crazy mindset in order to pass things, you can't have it all your way. And besides lets look at the facts, my friend knew that this would not get researched anyhow and just added it to appease the liberals. Think about #16 or #2, how do you prove this? You can't look up in a government computer and find peoples medical records. Police officers can't even call a doctors office and ask if they are a patient due to the doctor/patient confidentiality.
To prove this, my close friend who was diagnosed with PTSD and received treatment for his mental illness on #17 & #16 got his carry concealed license last year!!! Folks most of this stuff is just impossible for them to find, it was put in there to appease the liberals so they would approve the CCL and say "look what I did to make sure everyone is safe etc etc now re-elect me." The only background check they do is a NCIC which is the FBI background check in checking for convictions though a court of clerk which would be felonies or DV misdemeanors only. Your health records are not public knowledge and without a subpoena/warrant from a judge would they ever know. Also, to date being a gang member is not listed into NCIC and even if it was, is not a exclusion from getting a CCL in Kansas.
Marine0300 you said "I do want to address a couple of things. After the Personal & Family Protection Act was passed in 2006 (concealed carry) cities including Wichita, Topeka, & many other municipalities updated their weapons laws and yes they didn’t realize they allowed open carry." Although I did talk to the head attorney for the city of Wichita and she said that they did this on purpose for the reasons I listed on the last post, I can see why someone could call the "BS flag" and think it was a mistake. But, at any rate if you are right the error will be fixed at the next City Council meeting and the ordinance will clearly state that Wichita is NOT OPEN CARRY. Not even for law enforcement who are off duty! So really much of this debate is a mute point because this is all being fixed shortly.
"Finally since Kansas does not have preemption on OC I believe more has to be done than writing articles in the paper and joining a PAC. People have to organize at the lowest level and elect gun friendly officials to the city councils. I believe the NRA and PAC can do better at the state level fighting for preemption. Kansas needs one uniform gun law for OC from corner to corner." I concur but when I said joining a PAC typically that his what a PAC does, they have an agenda and raise money to donate to the candidate that supports them. I'm currently a member of a PAC on a different issue and raise money for city council members to support our cause. And the local city council and State Reps will be the ones effecting Kansas. But you are right, if the NRA can force the Supreme Court to rule the 2nd Amendment to all states then this will be a win for everyone and not just locally.
Senora Rebel I apologize if I didn't answer any of your statements, it seemed I was a little confused by.....well pretty much all of it. I'm glad that you can open carry in Arkansas and I know what the 2nd amendment stated for federally before the issue was left up to the states but this forum is talking about Wichita, Kansas which is NOT open carry and I've personally seen multiple people arrested and prosecuted and held up in court for such. And if a law degree and 10 years of law enforcement experience in the state someone actually lives in makes people "understand nothing" then us Kansans are guilty as charged.