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Thread: Repost: 18-21 y/o UOC in CA?

  1. #1
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    This is a repost of an unanswered question I had in the open carry questions forum, I thought it would be much more suitable for the CA forum in retrospect.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...jump_to=542877 Old thread.

    A conversation at my local firearms dealer led to the discussion of the lawfulness of a 18-20 year old possessing and openly carrying a handgun.

    12025 doesn't prohibit 18+ from transporting firearms lawfully.
    The CaliforniaOpenCarry.org website states that the minimum age to openly carry in California is 18. It does not however cite any penal code.

    I understand that PC and laws act to describe acts that would be unlawful, not to dole out permissions of lawful activity.

    The gun store I visited stated that it was unlawful for them to hand a handgun to an individual 18-20 to inspect it for purchase or what not, or to allow them to carry a rented firearm downstairs to the range. I do not see any part of the California PC that forbids this.
    Nor do I see one that forbids a 18-20 year old from participating in unloaded open carry.

    I'm looking to find precedent, or citation of the PC that would either forbid or permit an 18-20 year old to openly carry an unloaded concealable firearm.

    I suppose another good question to ask is the lawfulness of an 18-20 year old accepting the loan of a firearm from the legal owner for lawful purposes.

    Thanks so much for your help. I fully read the PC and district codes, and attempt to educate myself clearly. I appreciate anyone who can help me clarify this situation.

    Thanks for all your input guys!

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    If you're under 21 you cannot purchase a handgun in California.

    If you're under 18 you cannot own a handgun in California.

    If you are 18+, you can get one transferred to you from a parent or grandparent providing that you have a handgun safety certificate: CPC 12078(c)(2). A person over 18 can loan and be loaned a firearm providing that the loaner stays with the loanee: CPC 12078(d)(2).

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
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    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    I understand that PC and laws act to describe acts that would be unlawful, not to dole out permissions of lawful activity.
    Correct.

    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    The gun store I visited stated that it was unlawful for them to hand a handgun to an individual 18-20 to inspect it for purchase or what not, or to allow them to carry a rented firearm downstairs to the range.
    It wouldn't be "unlawful", thats a stretch or F.U.D. But even if you know in your mind and heart it's legal to posses a handgun 18-21 y/o, dont bother trying to educate the firing range. It's most likely a policy to reduce risk to them. Or a stipulation of their insurance. Bare in mind they (the business) can have a policy to not hand guns for inspection or otherwise to people with pink shoes.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    bigtoe416 wrote:
    If you're under 21 you cannot purchase a handgun in California. - TRUE

    If you're under 18 you cannot own a handgun in California. - FALSE An 18 year old can recieve a handgun as a gift from a parent/grandparent.

    If you are 18+, you can get one transferred to you from a parent or grandparent providing that you have a handgun safety certificate: CPC 12078(c)(2). A person over 18 can loan and be loaned a firearm providing that the loaner stays with the loanee: CPC 12078(d)(2).
    See above
    What above am I supposed to be seeing? I'd love to edit my post to add that I was wrong, but I don't see any information saying that a 16 year old can own a handgun in CA.

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    I'd go to the person making the claim that there is a law prohibiting it, and ask them to provide proof. When they can't, politely suggest that they check their facts before spewing ********. When they can produce the evidence... well, let us know.
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    I went through the PC again, this time including PC 12101. (http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/12101.html)


    There is a stipulation at the bottom (f) thatprecludes this PC from the context of carry.

    Either way I can't seem to find anything in the PC that indicates that the language of a minor could be broadened to include someone 18-21.


    In fact 12026(b), and 12026.1 (the whole bit), seem to indicate the full legality of possession of a concealable firearm.
    This in addition to the aforementioned 12078.

    12082 seems to apply strongly to dealers, FFL holders. It indicates a necessity for them to take part in a loan of a firearm. To me this indicates that there must be further laws stipulating the circumstances of a temporary loan of a firearm beyond that where the loaning party is present at all times.

    *scratches chin thoughtfully*

    Edit: ONLY a parent or grandparent?


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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    Edit: ONLY a parent or grandparent?
    Yeah, it looks like for the sake of the 18-21 year old receiving a handgun, the transfer can only be between a parent and child or between grandparent and grandchild.

    Code:
    (c) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the
    infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift,
    bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to
    another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.
    (2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the
    infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate
    succession, or other means by one individual to another if both
    individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the
    following conditions are met:
    (A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30
    days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or
    deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that
    includes information concerning the individual taking possession of
    the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description
    of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals
    complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the
    Department of Justice.
    (B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a
    handgun safety certificate.
    (C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
    (3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means
    any one of the following relationships:
    (A) Parent and child.
    (B) Grandparent and grandchild.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    bigtoe416 wrote:
    If you're under 21 you cannot purchase a handgun in California. - TRUE

    If you're under 18 you cannot own a handgun in California. - TRUE.

    If you are 18+, you can get one transferred to you from a parent or grandparent providing that you have a handgun safety certificate: CPC 12078(c)(2). A person over 18 can loan and be loaned a firearm providing that the loaner stays with the loanee: CPC 12078(d)(2).
    See above
    What above am I supposed to be seeing? I'd love to edit my post to add that I was wrong, but I don't see any information saying that a 16 year old can own a handgun in CA.
    Long day at work.

    I appologize. I misread the post. I read it as "If you are 18".

    Edited to fix.

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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    bigtoe416 wrote:
    If you're under 21 you cannot purchase a handgun in California. - TRUE

    If you're under 18 you cannot own a handgun in California. - FALSE* An 18 year old can recieve a handgun as a gift from a parent/grandparent.

    If you are 18+, you can get one transferred to you from a parent or grandparent providing that you have a handgun safety certificate: CPC 12078(c)(2). A person over 18 can loan and be loaned a firearm providing that the loaner stays with the loanee: CPC 12078(d)(2).
    See above
    What above am I supposed to be seeing? I'd love to edit my post to add that I was wrong, but I don't see any information saying that a 16 year old can own a handgun in CA.
    I don't have it handy, but there are separate laws detailing the circumstances a minor may be in possession of a firearm.

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    Minor being x<18?
    Or minor being 21>x>18?

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    heliopolissolutions wrote:
    Minor being x<18?
    Or minor being 21>x>18?
    I was refering to X<18, but the law does not appear to support what several legal summaries suggest. There is a massive web of laws and exceptions regarding minors possessing firearms. I haven't mapped them out. Same goes for 18-21. They can own one, but there are a lot of legal twists and turns.




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