With friends like this: Clayton Cramer attacks open carry

Tomahawk · Oct 31, 2009

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UtahRSO wrote:

I think Cramer made a mistaketyingpeople openly flaunting their homosexuality to those who carry openly. To me, arming myselfis a God-given right. The other behavior is not.

This is why I stopped calling myself a conservative.

The concept of negative rights is simple but lost on so many: You may do whatever you like so long as it does not harm another's life, liberty or property.

In other words, if people aren't hurting you leave them the ***k alone.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." ~ Thomas Paine

Master Doug Huffman · Oct 31, 2009

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Tomahawk wrote:

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." ~ Thomas Paine

Hermeneutically speaking, do you believe that Paine had homosexuality in mind when he wrote that, or was even aware of it beyond some obscure Biblical text?

To the degree that we are our brother's keeper and responsible for his healthcare costs then we are diminished and wounded by his avoidable expenses on our pocketbooks.

N6ATF · Oct 31, 2009

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Tomahawk wrote:

UtahRSO wrote:

I think Cramer made a mistaketyingpeople openly flaunting their homosexuality to those who carry openly. To me, arming myselfis a God-given right. The other behavior is not.

Click to expand...

This is why I stopped calling myself a conservative.

The concept of negative rights is simple but lost on so many: You may do whatever you like so long as it does not harm another's life, liberty or property.

In other words, if people aren't hurting you leave them the ***k alone.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." ~ Thomas Paine

I started calling myself a (paleo)conservative because I hate the new order where government exists to destroy life, liberty, and happiness.

What do you call yourself now then?

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." ~ Thomas Paine

Click to expand...

Hermeneutically speaking, do you believe that Paine had homosexuality in mind when he wrote that, or was even aware of it beyond some obscure Biblical text?

To the degree that we are our brother's keeper and responsible for his healthcare costs then we are diminished and wounded by his avoidable expenses on our pocketbooks.

:question:

To the degree that the government forces us to pay others' healthcare costs, the only way to avoid these expenses is to not pay taxes, replace the government, or commit mass suicide. The government would prefer we do the latter.

Tomahawk · Oct 31, 2009

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:

To the degree that we are our brother's keeper and responsible for his healthcare costs then we are diminished and wounded by his avoidable expenses on our pocketbooks.

If you believe you are responsible for someone else's healthcare than you are a socialist.

If you believe it is forced upon you, then the problem isn't those whom you are forced to pay for, but rather those who are forcing you to pay.

Tomahawk · Oct 31, 2009

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N6ATF wrote:

What do you call yourself now then?

I guess "libertarian" best fits me, but the problem with choosing to call yourself something is that you then subconsciously trying to conform to the label and instead of finding one that fits you.

Master Doug Huffman · Oct 31, 2009

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Tomahawk wrote:

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

To the degree that we are our brother's keeper and responsible for his healthcare costs then we are diminished and wounded by his avoidable expenses on our pocketbooks. [My emphasis]

Click to expand...

If you believe you are responsible for someone else's healthcare than you are a socialist.

If you believe it is forced upon you, then the problem isn't those whom you are forced to pay for, but rather those who are forcing you to pay.

It appears that the database is corrupt, the second sentence does not appear in the original text in my browser anyway. ETA: Well, now it does. Verry interesting.

I'm sorry that you avoided a contextual reading of Paine.

Tomahawk · Oct 31, 2009

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:

I'm sorry that you avoided a contextual reading of Paine.

You mean the "do you think Paine had homosexuality in mind?" part?

What does it matter? The wisdom of the words stands regardless of what was in the writer's head.

Just as we say the Declaration of Independence applies to all humans, even though its author was a slave-owner and so were many of its signers.

I am not much of a fan of "Original intent". Unless you can read the minds of dead people, you have no idea what they were thinking when they wrote something. But the ink on the parchment is concrete and tangible. No need for second-guessing or allying one's prejudices to interpret clearly-written English.

Master Doug Huffman · Oct 31, 2009

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When our Founding Fathers, the giants on whose shoulders we stand, when we read our FF, I hope that we remember that they were writing to their contemporaries, of their contemporary social context and not to us.

Some then, probably, and now certainly denigrate(d) Jefferson as a miscegenist while he was no more than iconoclastic by modern 'standards'. Standards that change are hardly standards.

In re your 1537, oh well, so much for hermeneutics.

N6ATF · Oct 31, 2009

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Perfect reasoning of the victim disarmers to ban all modern and effective firearms, and never to have allowed anybody other than land-owning white males to do anything worth doing. And since their victim disarmament disproportionally lands minorities in the hospital and morgue, the two dovetail to sinister perfection.

Except homosexuality existed back then, not self-loading polymer pistols and automatic rifles. The words "people" and "arms" allow for evolution; evolution of learning that people exist and are not harming anyone by existing, and deserve no less liberty than anyone else, and evolution of arms technology.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 31, 2009

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Tomahawk wrote:

N6ATF wrote:

What do you call yourself now then?

Click to expand...

I guess "libertarian" best fits me, but the problem with choosing to call yourself something is that you then subconsciously trying to conform to the label and instead of finding one that fits you.

Thats the exact same thing I have been saying even before I new there was a libertarian party, I used to call myself a constitutionalist, since the 6th grade and have been totally turned off by party politics.

Then was even more grounded in my belief when I found out in about 8th grade that George Washington felt the same way.

Alexcabbie · Oct 31, 2009

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What is going on here? "Master" Doug Huffman??? Not "Mister"??? You mean you are like, 12 ?? So RTKBA means "Right to keep and bear Airsoft"?? NRA is the National Recess Association?? :celebrate

OR do you mean "Master" in the Gay bondage-scene meaning. You know: "Young Lukemust report to Master Doug for special training in this video......":uhoh:

Or maybe are you an expert tyer of critters to fishhooks? as in "Doug is a great fishing buddy. He is a real Master Baiter! :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

OR maybe you just forgot the unspoken rule of OCDO: Never throw out a straight line into a forum of comedians. :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

mpg9999 · Oct 31, 2009

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"Until pot-smokers and gun owners and low-taxers and sexual minorities recognize that liberty is indivisible and that we're all in this together, we're going to be picked off piecemeal by government officials all too happy to exploit our mutual antagonisms."

-J.D. Tuccille

Alexcabbie · Oct 31, 2009

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mpg9999 wrote:

"Until pot-smokers and gun owners and low-taxers and sexual minorities recognize that liberty is indivisible and that we're all in this together, we're going to be picked off piecemeal by government officials all too happy to exploit our mutual antagonisms."

-J.D. Tuccille

Yup.

Doug Huffman · Nov 1, 2009

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Alexcabbie wrote:

:celebrate:celebrate:celebrateOR maybe you just forgot the unspoken rule of OCDO: Never throw out a straight line into a forum of comedians.

I expected to hook the troll that thinks post count is 'karma' credence, but not you, forgetting that this is a collection of comedian wannabes.

Your extrapolation to "gay bondage" (bashing?) overlooked the much more common BSDM title. I forbore 'Top' out of respect for the Czars that would be Top Coordinators, in Randian terms, if Obungler was literate.

SicSemperTyrannis · Nov 1, 2009

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Alexcabbie wrote:

mpg9999 wrote:

"Until pot-smokers and gun owners and low-taxers and sexual minorities recognize that liberty is indivisible and that we're all in this together, we're going to be picked off piecemeal by government officials all too happy to exploit our mutual antagonisms."

-J.D. Tuccille

Click to expand...

Yup.

Yup.

sudden valley gunner · Nov 1, 2009

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SicSemperTyrannis wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

mpg9999 wrote:

"Until pot-smokers and gun owners and low-taxers and sexual minorities recognize that liberty is indivisible and that we're all in this together, we're going to be picked off piecemeal by government officials all too happy to exploit our mutual antagonisms."

-J.D. Tuccille

Click to expand...

Yup.

Click to expand...

Yup.

yup

DanM · Nov 1, 2009

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

SicSemperTyrannis wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

mpg9999 wrote:

"Until pot-smokers and gun owners and low-taxers and sexual minorities recognize that liberty is indivisible and that we're all in this together, we're going to be picked off piecemeal by government officials all too happy to exploit our mutual antagonisms."

-J.D. Tuccille

Click to expand...

Yup.

Click to expand...

Yup.

Click to expand...

yup

Yup.

okboomer · Nov 1, 2009

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DanM wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

SicSemperTyrannis wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

mpg9999 wrote:

"Until pot-smokers and gun owners and low-taxers and sexual minorities recognize that liberty is indivisible and that we're all in this together, we're going to be picked off piecemeal by government officials all too happy to exploit our mutual antagonisms."

-J.D. Tuccille

Click to expand...

Yup.

Click to expand...

Yup.

Click to expand...

yup

Click to expand...

Yup.

Yup.

N6ATF · Nov 1, 2009

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Trying to annoy everyone into unwatching this topic, are we?

Tomahawk · Nov 1, 2009

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N6ATF wrote:

Trying to annoy everyone into unwatching this topic, are we?

Yup.

:dude:

With friends like this: Clayton Cramer attacks open carry

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