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Thread: Troy Firearms Ordinances

  1. #1
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    The City of Troy has some ordinances that may need to be addressed. Please review and provide input on these. I have listed the items in question in BOLD Text. I will wait a couple days before sending to the City Goverment.

    98.13.01 Transport or Possess Firearms. No person shall transport or possess a firearm in a vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle.
    A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both.
    Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to transport or possess firearms.

    I believe that this is covered by State Law as to transport for Long Guns and Pistols. I think that it should be repealed.

    98.13.02 Firearms in Public. No person shall carry a firearm in any public place unless it is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and in a case. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both. Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to carry firearms.
    This ordinance is meaningless as 2A and the Michigan Constitution allow Open Carry. I think it should be repealed.


    CHAPTER 8 - DISASTER CONTROL
    9. When a state of disaster has been declared by resolution of the City Council, the Mayor or his lawful designee may make any of the following orders in the interest of public safety and welfare:
    ...
    (3) The discontinuance of selling, distributing, dispensing or giving away of any firearms, ammunition, explosives, or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    (4) The closing of the following public establishments:
    (d) Any establishment selling firearms, ammunition, explosives or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    I believe that the MI 1990 Preemption Law "trumps" this ordinance, it should be repealed.

    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  2. #2
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Yup. Write a letter to them.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  3. #3
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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    The City of Troy has some ordinances that may need to be addressed. Please review and provide input on these. I have listed the items in question in BOLD Text. I will wait a couple days before sending to the City Goverment.

    98.13.01 Transport or Possess Firearms. No person shall transport or possess a firearm in a vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle.
    A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both.
    Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to transport or possess firearms.

    I believe that this is covered by State Law as to transport for Long Guns and Pistols. I think that it should be repealed.

    98.13.02 Firearms in Public. No person shall carry a firearm in any public place unless it is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and in a case. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both. Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to carry firearms.
    This ordinance is meaningless as 2A and the Michigan Constitution allow Open Carry. I think it should be repealed.


    CHAPTER 8 - DISASTER CONTROL
    9. When a state of disaster has been declared by resolution of the City Council, the Mayor or his lawful designee may make any of the following orders in the interest of public safety and welfare:
    ...
    (3) The discontinuance of selling, distributing, dispensing or giving away of any firearms, ammunition, explosives, or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    (4) The closing of the following public establishments:
    (d) Any establishment selling firearms, ammunition, explosives or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    I believe that the MI 1990 Preemption Law "trumps" this ordinance, it should be repealed.
    I see no problems here. None of these are in conflict with state law and explicitly allow for the state law exceptions.

    The Disaster Control ordinance appears questionable though.

  4. #4
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    The City of Troy has some ordinances that may need to be addressed. Please review and provide input on these. I have listed the items in question in BOLD Text. I will wait a couple days before sending to the City Goverment.

    98.13.01 Transport or Possess Firearms. No person shall transport or possess a firearm in a vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle.
    A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both.
    Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to transport or possess firearms.

    I believe that this is covered by State Law as to transport for Long Guns and Pistols. I think that it should be repealed.

    98.13.02 Firearms in Public. No person shall carry a firearm in any public place unless it is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and in a case. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both. Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to carry firearms.
    This ordinance is meaningless as 2A and the Michigan Constitution allow Open Carry. I think it should be repealed.


    CHAPTER 8 - DISASTER CONTROL
    9. When a state of disaster has been declared by resolution of the City Council, the Mayor or his lawful designee may make any of the following orders in the interest of public safety and welfare:
    ...
    (3) The discontinuance of selling, distributing, dispensing or giving away of any firearms, ammunition, explosives, or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    (4) The closing of the following public establishments:
    (d) Any establishment selling firearms, ammunition, explosives or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    I believe that the MI 1990 Preemption Law "trumps" this ordinance, it should be repealed.
    I see no problems here. None of these are in conflict with state law and explicitly allow for the state law exceptions.

    The Disaster Control ordinance appears questionable though.
    I agree with C...pat. The ordinance is saying all lawful purposes are allowed as provided by state or federal law. Local ordinances often mirror state law so the local attorney can prosecute and the local government gets fines, etc....keeps it all in house.

    The emergency ordinance is definitely in violation of the preemption law and should be addressed. A letter to them is a good start.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  5. #5
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    or just do what we did in warren!!

    go to council meeting and speak.

    then ask a council member to put it on the agenda,and make them vote on it!

    if they give you problems,talk with mayor,chief,all council members...should work out fine!

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    super duper necro-post

    as a recent resident of Troy i have drafted this letter please give feedback as necessary:

    Hello,I'm a recent resident of Troy and I was reviewing Troy's ordinances online. I'm contacting you in regards to sections of Troy code that directly conflicts existing state law. Namely, Sections 8 - Disaster Control and 98 - Criminal Code.
    As you may or may not know, the state of Michigan passed Act 319 of 1990 which states the following:123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2. A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation
    pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or
    possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other
    firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(plsitqaeeeqzkjnvinshbf55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-123-1102


    The specific areas that conflict with 123.1102 are:
    8.9.3 The discontinuance of selling, distributing, dispensing or giving away of any firearms, ammunition, explosives, or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    8.9.4 Any establishment selling firearms, ammunition, explosives or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    98.13.01 Transport or Possess Firearms
    98.13.02 Firearms in Public
    I am requesting these ordinances be updated or removed within 90 days to comply with MCL 123.1102. Failure to amend these ordinances could be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the city of Troy. I welcome your feedback, questions or concerns.

    Respectfully,






    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 01-04-2012 at 03:25 PM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    A decently drafted letter. What do you propose to do if they give you the finger?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    parts of it are plagiarized (borrowed) from other letters i've seen on here and other letters i've drafted to st clair and marysville.
    if i get the finger, their next council meeting is on the 9th... i plan to attend.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Wow, I'm surprised nothing was done since 2009. But good letter sir! Hopefully something comes of it, keep us informed!
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    me too, i've PMd the OP to see if he ever moved forward with it
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran RabbiVJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    as a recent resident of Troy i have drafted this letter please give feedback as necessary:

    Hello,I'm a recent resident of Troy and I was reviewing Troy's ordinances online. I'm contacting you in regards to sections of Troy code that directly conflicts existing state law. Namely, Sections 8 - Disaster Control and 98 - Criminal Code.
    As you may or may not know, the state of Michigan passed Act 319 of 1990 which states the following:123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2. A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation
    pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or
    possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other
    firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(plsitqaeeeqzkjnvinshbf55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-123-1102


    The specific areas that conflict with 123.1102 are:
    8.9.3 The discontinuance of selling, distributing, dispensing or giving away of any firearms, ammunition, explosives, or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    8.9.4 Any establishment selling firearms, ammunition, explosives or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    98.13.01 Transport or Possess Firearms
    98.13.02 Firearms in Public
    I am requesting these ordinances be updated or removed within 90 days to comply with MCL 123.1102. Failure to amend these ordinances could be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the city of Troy. I welcome your feedback, questions or concerns.

    Respectfully,






    As a former Resident of Troy, (Graduated 99 from Athens) and my parents still live there, I hope they change this. However as Nutso as the mayor is, and how anal city council is, i wish you good luck.
    -NRA Member, GSSF Member, GeorgiaCarry Member, Glock Certified Armorer, Glock 30SF, STI Elektra, M&P9c, NAA Black Widow .22 WMR
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  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i sent the email last night. now the wait.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    quick response from council member Dave Henderson

    Dan

    Thanks for your email. I am a proud CPL holder. I have forwarded your email to the city attorney for review. I will update you with her response when I receive it.

    Thanks

    Dave
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  14. #14
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    Dan

    Thanks for your email. I am a proud CPL holder. I have forwarded your email to the city attorney for review. I will update you with her response when I receive it.

    Thanks

    Dave
    Dave is who?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    "quick response from council member Dave Henderson"

    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  16. #16
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    as a recent resident of Troy i have drafted this letter please give feedback as necessary:

    Hello,I'm a recent resident of Troy and I was reviewing Troy's ordinances online. I'm contacting you in regards to sections of Troy code that directly conflicts existing state law. Namely, Sections 8 - Disaster Control and 98 - Criminal Code.
    As you may or may not know, the state of Michigan passed Act 319 of 1990 which states the following:123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2. A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation
    pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or
    possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other
    firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(plsitqaeeeqzkjnvinshbf55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-123-1102


    The specific areas that conflict with 123.1102 are:
    8.9.3 The discontinuance of selling, distributing, dispensing or giving away of any firearms, ammunition, explosives, or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    8.9.4 Any establishment selling firearms, ammunition, explosives or other dangerous weapons of any character whatsoever.
    98.13.01 Transport or Possess Firearms
    98.13.02 Firearms in Public
    I am requesting these ordinances be updated or removed within 90 days to comply with MCL 123.1102. Failure to amend these ordinances could be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the city of Troy. I welcome your feedback, questions or concerns.

    Respectfully,







    Don't forget this. Not even the Governor can take firearms.

    10.31 Proclamation of state of emergency; promulgation of orders, rules, and regulations; seizure of firearms, ammunition, or other weapons.Sec. 1.
    (1) During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting, catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the state, or reasonable apprehension of immediate danger of a public emergency of that kind, when public safety is imperiled, either upon application of the mayor of a city, sheriff of a county, or the commissioner of the Michigan state police or upon his or her own volition, the governor may proclaim a state of emergency and designate the area involved. After making the proclamation or declaration, the governor may promulgate reasonable orders, rules, and regulations as he or she considers necessary to protect life and property or to bring the emergency situation within the affected area under control. Those orders, rules, and regulations may include, but are not limited to, providing for the control of traffic, including public and private transportation, within the area or any section of the area; designation of specific zones within the area in which occupancy and use of buildings and ingress and egress of persons and vehicles may be prohibited or regulated; control of places of amusement and assembly and of persons on public streets and thoroughfares; establishment of a curfew; control of the sale, transportation, and use of alcoholic beverages and liquors; and control of the storage, use, and transportation of explosives or inflammable materials or liquids deemed to be dangerous to public safety.

    (2) The orders, rules, and regulations promulgated under subsection (1) are effective from the date and in the manner prescribed in the orders, rules, and regulations and shall be made public as provided in the orders, rules, and regulations. The orders, rules, and regulations may be amended, modified, or rescinded, in the manner in which they were promulgated, from time to time by the governor during the pendency of the emergency, but shall cease to be in effect upon declaration by the governor that the emergency no longer exists.


    (3) Subsection (1) does not authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of lawfully possessed firearms, ammunition, or other weapons.


    History: 1945, Act 302, Imd. Eff. May 25, 1945 ;-- CL 1948, 10.31 ;-- Am. 2006, Act 546, Imd. Eff. Dec. 29, 2006

    Last edited by Venator; 01-05-2012 at 12:38 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    thanks venator, i was looking for that as well
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  18. #18
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Already addressed....

    While still a resident of Michigan, I took it upon myself to contact them about that ordinance.

    Their reply was that the last section, about persons authorized by the state to carry, was added after the issue was previously raised. Their intention of the ordinance is to prevent minors, drinkers, druggers, and felons from carrying in their city. I told them that federal law already prohibits such things and they said that was the way it was going to stay.

    So, from my perspective, they have no intentions of dealing with people unless they are suspected of being a minor, drunk, high, or a convict.
    Last edited by Tucker6900; 01-05-2012 at 04:03 PM.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    that's pretty ridiculous... since there is no law that "permits" open carry...
    what about the emergencies section that says the mayor can halt gun sales????
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    that's pretty ridiculous... since there is no law that "permits" open carry...
    what about the emergencies section that says the mayor can halt gun sales????
    There should be ZERO issue getting this stricken from the books with the new Tea Party Mayor Troy just elected. Contact Janice Daniels directly.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i did. no reply yet.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Well I am available for a council meeting if needed, but the evidence seems good that this will be dealt with quickly.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    While still a resident of Michigan, I took it upon myself to contact them about that ordinance.

    Their reply was that the last section, about persons authorized by the state to carry, was added after the issue was previously raised. Their intention of the ordinance is to prevent minors, drinkers, druggers, and felons from carrying in their city. I told them that federal law already prohibits such things and they said that was the way it was going to stay.

    So, from my perspective, they have no intentions of dealing with people unless they are suspected of being a minor, drunk, high, or a convict.
    that's all well and good, but the preemption law doesn't say that a local unit of government shall not impose... unless it's on minors or if they add a clause for state and federal... it says "shall not impose"
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Well I am available for a council meeting if needed, but the evidence seems good that this will be dealt with quickly.
    thanks, will keep you posted
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    still just the one reply. no reply from the mayor.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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