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Thread: Other weapons to OC/CC

  1. #1
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    Can i OC/CCan expandable baton?

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    AFAIK Expandable Batons or ASPs are LEO-Only.

    Actually... I may be quite wrong. The only thing I was able to find relevant to batons or collapsible batons referred to LEOs and security guards and a license to carry one...
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  3. #3
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    ya but thats whileon duty right?

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Just about any bludgeoning weapon is illegal per 12020.

    Fixed blade knives of any length are legal as long as they are not concealed.

    Folding knives of any length are legal, concealed, although some local jurisdictions have restrictions. Assisted opening folders are also legal.

    Pepper spray is legal.



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    poothrowingape wrote:
    ya but thats whileon duty right?
    Non-LEO, non-licensed and baton permitted uniformed security guards, or those who don't regularly sell to either are prohibited from possessing batons or clubs of any type.

    PC 12020

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    I think a baton or pr-24 falls under the 12020 "blackjack" exemption. It isn't exactly the most clear statute, so I could very well be wrong.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton_(law_enforcement)

    Code:
    12020.  (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
    is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
    or in the state prison:
    (1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
    state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
    lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable
    firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a
    firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which
    contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or
    carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst
    trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any
    short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any
    leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol,
    any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge
    knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice
    handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon
    of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy,
    sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

  7. #7
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    Sandbag? Watch out for floods!

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    N6ATF wrote:
    Non-LEO, non-licensed and baton permitted uniformed security guards, or those who don't regularly sell to either are prohibited from possessing batons or clubs of any type.

    PC 12020
    Double-check your citation there... I can't find where it says "batons or clubs of any type"... and I can't find "expandable baton" anywhere on the list.

    (I seem to remember there being a code prohibiting possession of them, but I don't think 12020 is it, and I can't find it, so now I'm second-guessing myself.)
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    Carry a baseball bat and locate nearby batting cages. Unles you qualify under the below section.

    12002. (a) Nothing in this chapter prohibits police officers,
    special police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers
    from carrying any wooden club, baton, or any equipment authorized for
    the enforcement of law or ordinance in any city or county.
    (b) Nothing in this chapter prohibits a uniformed security guard,
    regularly employed and compensated by a person engaged in any lawful
    business, while actually employed and engaged in protecting and
    preserving property or life within the scope of his or her
    employment, from carrying any wooden club or baton if the uniformed
    security guard has satisfactorily completed a course of instruction
    certified by the Department of Consumer Affairs in the carrying and
    use of the club or baton. The training institution certified by the
    Department of Consumer Affairs to present this course, whether public
    or private, is authorized to charge a fee covering the cost of the
    training.
    (c) The Department of Consumer Affairs, in cooperation with the
    Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, shall develop
    standards for a course in the carrying and use of the club or baton.
    (d) Any uniformed security guard who successfully completes a
    course of instruction under this section is entitled to receive a
    permit to carry and use a club or baton within the scope of his or
    her employment, issued by the Department of Consumer Affairs. The
    department may authorize certified training institutions to issue
    permits to carry and use a club or baton. A fee in the amount
    provided by law shall be charged by the Department of Consumer
    Affairs to offset the costs incurred by the department in course
    certification, quality control activities associated with the course,
    and issuance of the permit.
    (e) Any person who has received a permit or certificate which
    indicates satisfactory completion of a club or baton training course
    approved by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training
    prior to January 1, 1983, shall not be required to obtain a baton or
    club permit or complete a course certified by the Department of
    Consumer Affairs.
    (f) Any person employed as a county sheriff's or police security
    officer, as defined in Section 831.4, shall not be required to obtain
    a club or baton permit or to complete a course certified by the
    Department of Consumer Affairs in the carrying and use of a club or
    baton, provided that the person completes a course approved by the
    Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training in the carrying
    and use of the club or baton, within 90 days of employment.
    (g) Nothing in this chapter prohibits an animal control officer,
    as described in Section 830.9, or an illegal dumping enforcement
    officer, as described in Section 830.7, from carrying any wooden club
    or baton if the animal control officer or illegal dumping
    enforcement officer has satisfactorily completed a course of
    instruction certified by the Department of Consumer Affairs in the
    carrying and use of the club or baton. The training institution
    certified by the Department of Consumer Affairs to present this
    course, whether public or private, is authorized to charge a fee
    covering the cost of the training.




  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    yelohamr wrote:
    Carry a baseball bat and locate nearby batting cages. Unles you qualify under the below section.
    Careful. People get charged and successfully convicted for carrying baseball bats all the time. Not worth it IMO, especially considering you can legally carry a knife.


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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    Non-LEO, non-licensed and baton permitted uniformed security guards, or those who don't regularly sell to either are prohibited from possessing batons or clubs of any type.

    PC 12020
    Double-check your citation there... I can't find where it says "batons or clubs of any type"... and I can't find "expandable baton" anywhere on the list.

    (I seem to remember there being a code prohibiting possession of them, but I don't think 12020 is it, and I can't find it, so now I'm second-guessing myself.)
    Billy, short for billy club, also known as cudgel, baton, truncheon, night stick, sap and bludgeon.

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    MudCamper wrote:
    yelohamr wrote:
    Carry a baseball bat and locate nearby batting cages. Unles you qualify under the below section.
    Careful. People get charged and successfully convicted for carrying baseball bats all the time. Not worth it IMO, especially considering you can legally carry a knife.
    I meant that as sarcasm, sorry I didn't indicate it that way.

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    Snake whips, bull whips, sjamboks, hiking staffs, canes are legal and umbrellas are all legal.

    Anyone up for making a collapsible monopod for a camera?



  14. #14
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    I personally carry my cane with me most everywhere. My knee doesn't always bother me, but if I am walking and it starts to hurt, I am always glad that I have my cane with me.



    If confronted by a situation that requires me to defend myself from attack, then I will use whatever ordinary implements I have on hand as "improvised weapons". They are not weapons, but can be used as weapons if needed.

    A ball point pen is not a stabbing weapon, however, you can stab someone with a ball point pen.



    A leather belt with a heavy buckle is not a "slung shot", however, it can be used effectively in the same manner as a slung shot. For those who don't know what a slung shot is, it is pictured below.





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    Wear a tool belt and open carry a hammer.

    When I fly to MO every year, I carry2 golf balls and a pair of socks in my carry on bag...along with a cane.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    yelohamr wrote:
    Wear a tool belt and open carry a hammer.

    When I fly to MO every year, I carry2 golf balls and a pair of socks in my carry on bag...along with a cane.
    A nice glass paperweight works well in a sock.



  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    OK. Somebody had to post the unbreakable umbrella sooner or later:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO8G5zsQohg


  18. #18
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    MudCamper wrote:
    OK. Somebody had to post the unbreakable umbrella sooner or later:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO8G5zsQohg
    Does it come in white?
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  19. #19
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    N6ATF wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    Non-LEO, non-licensed and baton permitted uniformed security guards, or those who don't regularly sell to either are prohibited from possessing batons or clubs of any type.

    PC 12020
    Double-check your citation there... I can't find where it says "batons or clubs of any type"... and I can't find "expandable baton" anywhere on the list.

    (I seem to remember there being a code prohibiting possession of them, but I don't think 12020 is it, and I can't find it, so now I'm second-guessing myself.)
    Billy, short for billy club, also known as cudgel, baton, truncheon, night stick, sap and bludgeon.
    Citation?

    Most of your list are different items, though all are bludgeoning weapons. Some of them are enumerated in the statute, which IMO indicates only enumerated forms of bludgeoning weapons are intended to be prohibited.

    I'm still fairly certain batons are banned, but I'm interested in seeing the proof.
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  20. #20
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    California pretty much prohibits persons defending themselves - weapons like this are generally outlawed. You can't order one of those, or a sword cane, for example. Gold Knuckles? Forget it. Move to Venus - weapons for self-protection are allowed there, and at other ports in the universe, if you can swing the import tax.

    I bought one of those Irish "black thorn" canes because I'm a diabetic with failing lower limbs - it's one tough stick, but I'd rather have a gun.

    But only a long gun would help my dying legs.

  21. #21
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    ok since batons are banned, what about other less-lethal weapons. Tazers, stunguns, ormace.

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    poothrowingape wrote:
    ok since batons are banned, what about other less-lethal weapons. Tazers, stunguns, ormace.
    All legal, as well as knives.


  23. #23
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    MudCamper wrote:
    poothrowingape wrote:
    ok since batons are banned, what about other less-lethal weapons. Tazers, stunguns, ormace.
    All legal, as well as knives.
    I can't find thecitation for my information onit, but if I remember correctly, Mace requires training and a license to carry in CA.

    ....But, Pepper Spray doesn't; and its FAR more effective anyway...



    I can't find anything in CA Law that references Mace except GC 58001 and that's not what I was looking for. I wonder if the law was actually repealed.

  24. #24
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    mjones wrote:
    MudCamper wrote:
    poothrowingape wrote:
    ok since batons are banned, what about other less-lethal weapons. Tazers, stunguns, or¬*mace.
    All legal, as well as knives.
    I can't find the¬*citation for my information on¬*it, but if I remember correctly, Mace requires training and a license to carry in CA.

    ....But, Pepper Spray doesn't; and its FAR more effective anyway...

    ¬*

    I can't find anything in CA Law that references Mace except GC 58001 and that's not what I was looking for. I wonder if the law was actually repealed.
    It's chemical agents carried & used by security guards and PIs at work. OC/mace/pepper spray/tear gas.

    http://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/guardgd.pdf

    PC 12403.5

    Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person holding a license as a private
    investigator or private patrol operator issued pursuant to Chapter 11 (commencing with
    Section 7500), Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code, or uniformed patrolmen
    employees of a private patrol operator, may purchase, possess, or transport any tear gas
    weapon, if it is used solely for defensive purposes in the course of the activity for which the
    license was issued and if the person has satisfactorily completed a course of instruction
    approved by the Department of Consumer Affairs in the use of tear gas.

  25. #25
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    Decoligny wrote:
    yelohamr wrote:
    Wear a tool belt and open carry a hammer.¬*¬*

    When I fly to MO every year, I carry2 golf balls and a pair of socks in my carry on bag...along with a cane.
    A nice glass paperweight works well in a sock.

    A weighted sock is a billy club.

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