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Thread: armed vigilantes? in the uw

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    I thought it was legal to carry on college campuses, and just prohibited by policy?

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    From the article: "University Of Washington Deputy Police Chief Ray Wittmier says; "People when they are carrying weapons a lot of times they feel less vulnerable so they put themselves in bad positions sometimes increasing the likelihood that they might run into a bad situation."

    What a bunch of baloney, most of us go out of our way to avoid "bad positions or situations" if we can, maybe he was talking about the police. :shock:But then again, given the recent uptick in incidents, maybe the police do avoid those areas!

    Gary

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    It didn't help that the news repeatedly showed them racking the slide, slamming the clip and then.... oh gawd... Putting the gun into the front of the pants...

    We need to get them on here and get these UW boys educated, so they can spread the love.
    www.WaGuns.org

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    I thought that they came across as well spoken and "not crazy". Too bad about the "front of the pants thing" and the loading and unloading the gun. Wouldn't be surprised if they were prompted to do that by the news crew as it isn't a normal gun owner thing that I've seen. All in all a pretty balanced news report.

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    I don't think they're doing anything wrong. Other than poor gun handling it's obvious that the UW "police" are not the professional ones. I think the amount of assaults in that area speak for themselves.

    Citizens should have the right to make sure their neighborhoods stay safe.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    Well my main concern is, now that the two students have been made public and everyone knows who they are, would UW officials arrest them/enforce disciplinary actions on them for breaking school policies?

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    I found one of the students on Facebook and sent a message reaching out to them. As a former student at the UW I applaud their stance but am concerned about hwo this story could be used against them. I sent them a link to this forum and hopefully they will reach out for some advice and we can help them with a responsible solution to their very real fears
    Live Free or Die!

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    I'm thinking these kids are in trouble when they do shoot someone. From what I heardit doesn't look to me like a reason to use deadly force. Mean green pepper spray might be a better idea. A holster and some gun training would be prudent too.



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    Wow, it actually physically hurt me to watch that video and see one of them stick their loaded gun in the front of their pants. That just set every gun owner in Seattle back 5 years. *sigh*

    I don't have a problem with their reasoning, but their approach and skills needs some serious work.

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    If you look closely at the video segment when drawing, you can see the guy does actually have a holster. The holster's clip is visible on the belt and the nylon is just barely visible.

    Who knows if they mentioned that and it got caught, or if they're unaware/just don't care how they're perceived. Either way, at least they weren't "mexican carrying". As heresolong said, most of what they did was likely prompted. They simply didn't have enough experience to know not to do that despite the reporter's request.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Did he say he was walking around being the bait, fishing for robbers?
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    That was the impression I got....... :shock:

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    I'm sure he will find want he's looking for, what a dumbass.

    I have the same M&P with no external safety, mine the 9c. Dammed if I would ever sick in in my drawerslockedand loaded pionting at my Junk.:shock:
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    massivedesign wrote:
    It didn't help that the news repeatedly showed them racking the slide, slamming the clip and then.... oh gawd... Putting the gun into the front of the pants...

    We need to get them on here and get these UW boys educated, so they can spread the love.
    Not a bad idea. I wonder how we might be able to provide some sort of educational service (maybeoffered as a public service by OCDO)



    Thougts?

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    Yeah, get jumped, adrenaline screaming, grab the gun with your finger in the wrong place and squeeze a little too hard.... :what:

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    @commodore Excellent idea, they have the right idea, it just seems some education is needed. And yes, this group would be an excellent place to do it. I wonder if there is any way to contact them?

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    Gemini wrote:
    Yeah, get jumped, adrenaline screaming, grab the gun with your finger in the wrong place and squeeze a little too hard.... :what:
    And you have a painful sex change. :shock:

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    Gemini wrote:
    @commodore Excellent idea, they have the right idea, it just seems some education is needed. And yes, this group would be an excellent place to do it. I wonder if there is any way to contact them?
    Facebook? You're the "computer expert", can you find 'em?

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    http://www.guardianangels.org/

    The Guardian Angles have a good concept.
    Perhaps they can walk in groups of 5 and lose the guns.

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    Commodore76 wrote:
    Gemini wrote:
    @commodore Excellent idea, they have the right idea, it just seems some education is needed. And yes, this group would be an excellent place to do it. I wonder if there is any way to contact them?
    Facebook? You're the "computer expert", can you find 'em?
    Contact has been made

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    grishnav wrote:
    I thought it was legal to carry on college campuses, and just prohibited by policy?

    It is legal, there are no criminal sanctions for anyone carrying a gun on campus. There are administrative sanctions against students, staff and faculty. No sanctions against the general public other than being asked ot leave by a "uniformed UW Campus Police Officer." Refusal to leave could then result in a trespass charge.

    The article doesn't say they are on campus. It said they are in the University Avenue area and other areas AROUND the campus.

    I am NOT a lawyer.....


    Reading the actual WAC 478 it lists conduct on campus.



    478-124-020 lists prohibited conduct, one of which is possession of weapons on campus.



    478-124-030 lists sanctions for violations.



    (1) Any person while on the university campus who willfully refuses the request of a uniformed campus police officer to desist from conduct prohibited by these rules may be required by such officer to leave such premises.

    (2) Disciplinary action which may result in dismissal from the university will be initiated against faculty, staff or students who violate these rules, in accordance with the applicable disciplinary codes or other appropriate due process procedures.

    (3) Sanctions which may be imposed against faculty are set forth in the University of Washington Handbook, Volume II, Chapter 25, Sections 25-51 and 25-71.

    (4) Sanctions which may be imposed against students are set forth in WAC 478-120-040.

    (5) Sanctions which may be imposed against classified staff are set forth in the relevant University of Washington labor contract for contract-classified staff, and in Title 357 WAC and applicable university policy for classified nonunion staff.

    (6) Sanctions which may be imposed against the professional staff are set forth in the University of Washington Professional Staff Program.

    (7) Violation of any of the above regulations may also constitute violation of the criminal laws or ordinances of the city of Seattle, State of Washington, or the United States and may subject a violator to criminal sanctions in addition to any sanctions imposed by the university.



    Nowhere are criminal penalties mentioned, because there are none. Staff and students can be sanctioned. Anyone else can be asked to leave. Refusal then would fall under criminal trespass statutes.



    Laws do not tell us what we can do, they tell us what we cannot do. If there is no law against something, then it is by default, legal activity.



    Going a step further:



    RCW 9.41.280 Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities – penalty – exceptions



    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:



    This RCW doesn’t apply to the university because it is not a primary or secondary school.



    RCW 9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places – Local laws and ordinances – Exceptions – Penalty.



    Nowhere in this RCW does it mention schools at all, let alone universities. Therefore it also does not apply.





    Therefore, there is no criminal penalty for possession of a firearm on campus. There are sanctions against students and staff, but not on other citizens other than asked to leave and then charged with criminal trespass if they refused to leave campus when directed by the campus police.



    Technically, Seattle PD cannot ask one to leave the campus for weapons possession. The WAC says specifically a uniformed campus police officer must make the request.




    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Regular Member krazichinaman's Avatar
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    All the hard workwe put into starting the UW chapter of SCCC has gone down the drain................


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    Regular Member krazichinaman's Avatar
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    Here is the link to the old article if anyone is interested.

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/360420_guns24.html

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    j2l3 wrote:
    grishnav wrote:
    I thought it was legal to carry on college campuses, and just prohibited by policy?

    It is legal, there are no criminal sanctions for anyone carrying a gun on campus. There are administrative sanctions against students, staff and faculty. No sanctions against the general public other than being asked ot leave by a "uniformed UW Campus Police Officer." Refusal to leave could then result in a trespass charge.

    The article doesn't say they are on campus. It said they are in the University Avenue area and other areas AROUND the campus.

    I am NOT a lawyer.....


    Reading the actual WAC 478 it lists conduct on campus.



    478-124-020 lists prohibited conduct, one of which is possession of weapons on campus.



    478-124-030 lists sanctions for violations.



    (1) Any person while on the university campus who willfully refuses the request of a uniformed campus police officer to desist from conduct prohibited by these rules may be required by such officer to leave such premises.

    (2) Disciplinary action which may result in dismissal from the university will be initiated against faculty, staff or students who violate these rules, in accordance with the applicable disciplinary codes or other appropriate due process procedures.

    (3) Sanctions which may be imposed against faculty are set forth in the University of Washington Handbook, Volume II, Chapter 25, Sections 25-51 and 25-71.

    (4) Sanctions which may be imposed against students are set forth in WAC 478-120-040.

    (5) Sanctions which may be imposed against classified staff are set forth in the relevant University of Washington labor contract for contract-classified staff, and in Title 357 WAC and applicable university policy for classified nonunion staff.

    (6) Sanctions which may be imposed against the professional staff are set forth in the University of Washington Professional Staff Program.

    (7) Violation of any of the above regulations may also constitute violation of the criminal laws or ordinances of the city of Seattle, State of Washington, or the United States and may subject a violator to criminal sanctions in addition to any sanctions imposed by the university.



    Nowhere are criminal penalties mentioned, because there are none. Staff and students can be sanctioned. Anyone else can be asked to leave. Refusal then would fall under criminal trespass statutes.



    Laws do not tell us what we can do, they tell us what we cannot do. If there is no law against something, then it is by default, legal activity.



    Going a step further:



    RCW 9.41.280 Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities – penalty – exceptions



    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:



    This RCW doesn’t apply to the university because it is not a primary or secondary school.



    RCW 9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places – Local laws and ordinances – Exceptions – Penalty.



    Nowhere in this RCW does it mention schools at all, let alone universities. Therefore it also does not apply.





    Therefore, there is no criminal penalty for possession of a firearm on campus. There are sanctions against students and staff, but not on other citizens other than asked to leave and then charged with criminal trespass if they refused to leave campus when directed by the campus police.



    Technically, Seattle PD cannot ask one to leave the campus for weapons possession. The WAC says specifically a uniformed campus police officer must make the request.



    (6) Nothing herein shall be construed to deny students their legally and/or constitutionally protected rights.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.a...te=478-120-020

    (4) Nothing herein shall be construed as being intended to protect any person or class of persons from injury or harm, or construed to deny students their legally and/or constitutionally protected rights.


    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.a...te=478-120-025

    On Campus & Off Campus

    XD


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