imported post
Carrying openly in a CEZ with a CPL is not RAS to detain.
If the officer does develop RAS through a totality of circumstances, then that officer may do so, and it would probably be up to the judge to decide that.
Regardless if the officer has RAS or not, the CPL holder is not in this example required to supply ID/CPL since that is only a requirement for “concealed” pistols.
The way the law is worded, if a CPL holder is carrying a concealed pistol, and an officer “requests” ID/CPL, then the CPL holder must show them. There is no such requirement on OC w/CPL however, if one is being detained (regardless of RAS), then it might help to clear things up. True that the officer may not have lawful RAS, but that would be something to take up with the courts later.
If you feel confident enough to know that the court will find the officer lacking lawful RAS, then you could refuse to present ID. Not because the detention is unlawful, but because disclosure is not required by law. If you feel the detention was unlawful, then you can take it up with the courts and his superiors later.
This is why I wrote WWR, as well as recommend DVR’s. It is also why I discourage trying to educate individual officers on the street. (Many of them are just using such “education” to learn how to avoid constitutional pitfalls while harassing OC’ers.) (Remember, when they unlawfully detained some of our members; they adjusted their RAS when told how unlawful their initial RAS was). Again, this is why I wrote WWR. Get the officer’s RAS for the stop (the full extent of it), and don’t do or say anything until he gives it to you (if he physically forces or orders you to stand up and present ID/CPL, that is up to your decision).
Dougwg was a great example when he went to turn in a firearm for destruction. The desk officer demanded ID, and dougwg simply asked if he was suspected of a crime. He still provided the ID, but made sure to get the RAS.
Agree or disagree, and IANAL, and this isn’t legal advice. eHeka;kldjkl’af
