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Thread: No Weapon Policies at Work

  1. #1
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    I was wondering if anyone had any insight into what the legal issues arein relation to state code and a privatecompanie's policies banning weapons oncompany property?? (This is for Washington state).

    Can they enforce such a ban? Can they LEGALLYfire someone who brings a weapon onto company property, say in their car in the parking lot, even if that is policy and the employee signed the handbook acknowledging that policy??

    Any insight into legality, any advice or suggestions where to go for more info would be greatly appreciated.

    Dave R

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    thefirststrike wrote:
    I was wondering if anyone had any insight into what the legal issues arein relation to state code and a privatecompanie's policies banning weapons oncompany property?? (This is for Washington state).

    Can they enforce such a ban? Can they LEGALLYfire someone who brings a weapon onto company property, say in their car in the parking lot, even if that is policy and the employee signed the handbook acknowledging that policy??

    Any insight into legality, any advice or suggestions where to go for more info would be greatly appreciated.

    Dave R


    Yes, Yes, and Yes.



    Their private property rights trump your right to carry... It's their property, they set the rules.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  3. #3
    Regular Member knight_308's Avatar
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    Park off-site.

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    i would love to see a law that says employers have to let employees lock your pistol in your car.....but we have a lot of blue in public office right now, so i dont think it is going to change for a while..........unless someone starts a voters initiative

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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    Yes, Yes, and Yes.



    Their private property rights trump your right to carry... It's their property, they set the rules.
    When I've had this discussion with folks before, I've run into the exact statement oralmost exact statement as the one above. Is there some case law that presides over the issue ofpossession of a firearm within one's personal vehicle in the state of Washington. I understand and agree that private property rights trump an individual's right to carry on their property, andif we were discussing the right to carry on one's person outside of their vehicle I would not disagree. However, I can also see where a firearm that never leaves one's personal vehicle wouldn't be subject to the restriction.

    Specifically, I can seean argument being made that the area within the vehicle is YOUR personal property and within that space your personal property rightssupersede an employer's personal property rights.

    Does an employer have the right to enter your personal vehicle and search it at their discretion wheneverthe vehicleis parked on their property,as ifyour vehiclewere their own property? No. There are exceptions of course (such as if you use your vehicle for company business or something like that...) but I generally understand the answer to that question to be a firm "no".

    With that premise in mind, why would we accept as fact, the notion that an employer's personal property rights trump an individual's personal property rights within the scope of "the area within the passenger compartment or trunk" of their personal vehicle?



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    This lets them do it or fire you:

    and the employee signed the handbook acknowledging that policy
    Bruce





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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    My company policy will not let me have a weapon on company property, in my personal vehicle on company property nor allow me to carry at any company sponsored activity. I've been written up & suspended for an empty holster. 7 years I fought this issue at work. The only way it will get changed in Washington is for enough people to get the Legislature behind it like they did in other states.

    Kentucky for example:

    KRS 237.106
    Employers not permitted to prohibit weapons on property, if kept in a vehicle on that property
    (1) No person, including but not limited to an employer, who is the owner, lessee, or occupant of real property shall prohibit any person who is legally entitled to possess a firearm from possessing a firearm, part of a firearm, ammunition, or ammunition component in a vehicle on the property.
    (2) A person, including but not limited to an employer, who owns, leases, or otherwise occupies real property may prevent a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm or ammunition from possessing a firearm or ammunition on the property.
    (3) A firearm may be removed from the vehicle or handled in the case of self-defense, defense of another, defense of property, or as authorized by the owner, lessee, or occupant of the property.
    (4) An employer that fires, disciplines, demotes, or otherwise punishes an employee who is lawfully exercising a right guaranteed by this section, and who is engaging in conduct in compliance with this statute shall be liable in civil damages. An employee may seek and the court shall grant an injunction against an employer who is violating the provisions of this section when it is found that the employee is in compliance with the provisions of this section.
    (5) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any real property:
    (a) Owned, leased, or occupied by the United States government upon which the possession or carrying of firearms is prohibited or controlled;
    (b) Of a detention facility as defined in KRS 520.010; or
    (c) Where a section of the Kentucky Revised Statutes specifically prohibits possession or carrying of firearms on the property.





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    knight_308 wrote:
    Park off-site.
    Ihave beenthinking about it...the problem is there isnowhere public close enough to workto park. I am still trying to think about how to do this.

    Dave

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    bcp wrote:
    This lets them do it or fire you:

    and the employee signed the handbook acknowledging that policy
    Bruce



    Well, plus they have an "at will" termination policy (as mentioned in the handbook), so they could just boot me for absolutely no reason.

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    M1Gunr wrote:
    My company policy will not let me have a weapon on company property, in my personal vehicle on company property nor allow me to carry at any company sponsored activity. I've been written up & suspended for an empty holster. 7 years I fought this issue at work. The only way it will get changed in Washington is for enough people to get the Legislature behind it like they did in other states.

    Kentucky for example:

    KRS 237.106
    Employers not permitted to prohibit weapons on property, if kept in a vehicle on that property
    (1) No person, including but not limited to an employer, who is the owner, lessee, or occupant of real property shall prohibit any person who is legally entitled to possess a firearm from possessing a firearm, part of a firearm, ammunition, or ammunition component in a vehicle on the property.
    (2) A person, including but not limited to an employer, who owns, leases, or otherwise occupies real property may prevent a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm or ammunition from possessing a firearm or ammunition on the property.
    (3) A firearm may be removed from the vehicle or handled in the case of self-defense, defense of another, defense of property, or as authorized by the owner, lessee, or occupant of the property.
    (4) An employer that fires, disciplines, demotes, or otherwise punishes an employee who is lawfully exercising a right guaranteed by this section, and who is engaging in conduct in compliance with this statute shall be liable in civil damages. An employee may seek and the court shall grant an injunction against an employer who is violating the provisions of this section when it is found that the employee is in compliance with the provisions of this section.
    (5) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any real property:
    (a) Owned, leased, or occupied by the United States government upon which the possession or carrying of firearms is prohibited or controlled;
    (b) Of a detention facility as defined in KRS 520.010; or
    (c) Where a section of the Kentucky Revised Statutes specifically prohibits possession or carrying of firearms on the property.



    I would LOVE to see this happen...I would definitely support it.

    Dave R

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    Two suggestions:

    Leave your pistol locked in your vehicle anyway. No one is going to know.

    If you'd rather respect your companies policies, then park off the property.

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    I work in Pullman, my company has a "no weapons" policy with pocket knives being the unwritten exception as we use them a lot in the shop. I keep my XD or 1911 hidden and locked up in my car at work, on the property. When I get off work I put my gun on and go about my day. No one knows the weapon is in my car other than myself and they won't search my car because I won't allow them.

    Keep it in your car, hidden, and no one will be the wiser.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    ...

    Leave your pistol locked in your vehicle anyway. No one is going to know.

    ...
    Vandal wrote:
    ...I keep my XD or 1911 hidden and locked up in my car at work, on the property. When I get off work I put my gun on and go about my day. No one knows the weapon is in my car other than myself and they won't search my car because I won't allow them.

    Keep it in your car, hidden, and no one will be the wiser.
    What do you do if the company asks you if you are following all established policies andrules?



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    I would state that " I am completely within all legal parameters.

    HankT wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    ...

    Leave your pistol locked in your vehicle anyway. No one is going to know.

    ...
    Vandal wrote:
    ...I keep my XD or 1911 hidden and locked up in my car at work, on the property. When I get off work I put my gun on and go about my day. No one knows the weapon is in my car other than myself and they won't search my car because I won't allow them.

    Keep it in your car, hidden, and no one will be the wiser.
    What do you do if the company asks you if you are following all established policies andrules?


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    HankT wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    ...

    Leave your pistol locked in your vehicle anyway. No one is going to know.

    ...
    Vandal wrote:
    ...I keep my XD or 1911 hidden and locked up in my car at work, on the property. When I get off work I put my gun on and go about my day. No one knows the weapon is in my car other than myself and they won't search my car because I won't allow them.

    Keep it in your car, hidden, and no one will be the wiser.
    What do you do if the company asks you if you are following all established policies andrules?

    Pretend I didn't hear anything they said and offer to send them to HankT's school of the chronic drive-by trolling, of course.

    As I've recently learned from you, the best way to "win" is to ignore anything that doesn't fit my narrow worldview and then bring up non sequiturs when pressed.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    I would state that " I am completely within all legal parameters.
    What if they ask, "What does that mean, TD?"

    And follow-up with "It's really a simple question, TD, can you please confirm if you are following all established policies andrules?"



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    From Adam Sandler's The Waterboy "what mama don't know, won't hurt her."

    Hank, my employers have absolutely no reason to know if I have a gun in my car. If they ask about it, I have no issue telling them there is nothing in my car they need to worry about. They cannot search my vehicle and the only thing in plain view is a few receipts and a McDonald's coffee cup.

    There are some things that they just don't need to know about, thus they will never find out. I my case it also helps that the people I work with and for are hunters and gun owners. I would be very surprised to find out if I am the only one with a gun in my car.

  18. #18
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    Vandal wrote:
    From Adam Sandler's The Waterboy "what mama don't know, won't hurt her."

    Hank, my employers have absolutely no reason to know if I have a gun in my car. If they ask about it, I have no issue telling them there is nothing in my car they need to worry about. They cannot search my vehicle and the only thing in plain view is a few receipts and a McDonald's coffee cup.

    There are some things that they just don't need to know about, thus they will never find out. I my case it also helps that the people I work with and for are hunters and gun owners. I would be very surprised to find out if I am the only one with a gun in my car.
    You're not understanding what I said, V.

    What if they ask you you if you are following all established policies andrules?

    What if they simply ask: "V, can you please confirmthat you are following all established company policies andrules?"

    What would your reply be?



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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    thefirststrike wrote:
    bcp wrote:
    This lets them do it or fire you:

    and the employee signed the handbook acknowledging that policy
    Well, plus they have an "at will" termination policy (as mentioned in the handbook), so they could just boot me for absolutely no reason.
    Washington is an "at will" state. Either party can terminate the employment agreement for any reason.

  20. #20
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    HankT wrote:
    You're not understanding what I said, V.

    What if they ask you you if you are following all established policies andrules?

    What if they simply ask: "V, can you please confirmthat you are following all established company policies andrules?"

    What would your reply be?
    "Yes."

    If they find out they'll fire you for having the firearm, so what does it matter that you lied to them about it? And if they don't find out about it, they won't know you are lying to them.

    It is none of their damned business what is inside my car.

  21. #21
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    John Hardin wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    You're not understanding what I said, V.

    What if they ask you you if you are following all established policies andrules?

    What if they simply ask: "V, can you please confirmthat you are following all established company policies andrules?"

    What would your reply be?
    "Yes."
    So, you would lie to your employer?

  22. #22
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    I am going to say that inside your locked car is no different than your home. It is personal property that needs a warrant to search. Your employer can not by policy or any other reason dictate what is in your car. My wife works for a municipality and this was a topic of conversation. The employer (a government entity) can not ban a firearm from her car. I work for a private company. I have asked this question as well. They have no interest in what is in my car, unless there was something illegal in plain view.

    This is a non-issue.
    Live Free or Die!

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    HankT wrote:
    John Hardin wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    You're not understanding what I said, V.

    What if they ask you you if you are following all established policies andrules?

    What if they simply ask: "V, can you please confirmthat you are following all established company policies andrules?"

    What would your reply be?
    "Yes."
    So, you would lie to your employer?
    I would have no problem lying to someone who had his/her nose where it didn't belong if it got them to shut up with the ridiculous inquiry.

  24. #24
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    John Hardin wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    You're not understanding what I said, V.

    What if they ask you you if you are following all established policies andrules?

    What if they simply ask: "V, can you please confirmthat you are following all established company policies andrules?"

    What would your reply be?
    "Yes."
    So, you would lie to your employer?
    I would have no problem lying to someone who had his/her nose where it didn't belong if it got them to shut up with the ridiculous inquiry.
    So, even though they asked about something they have a perfect right to, compliance with company policies/rules, you would lie to them.

    OK. You would lie to get them off your back.

  25. #25
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    Just lock it in a secret compartment. Or carry super concealed like a thigh holster or ankle or pocket. your life is more important than your job right>? besides, it feels good to thumb your nose at your liberal employers back

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