HankT
State Researcher
imported post
John Hardin wrote:
John Hardin wrote:
So, you would lie to your employer?
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No Weapon Policies at Work
- Thread starter thefirststrike
- Start date
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
imported post
I am going to say that inside your locked car is no different than your home. It is personal property that needs a warrant to search. Your employer can not by policy or any other reason dictate what is in your car. My wife works for a municipality and this was a topic of conversation. The employer (a government entity) can not ban a firearm from her car. I work for a private company. I have asked this question as well. They have no interest in what is in my car, unless there was something illegal in plain view.
This is a non-issue.
I am going to say that inside your locked car is no different than your home. It is personal property that needs a warrant to search. Your employer can not by policy or any other reason dictate what is in your car. My wife works for a municipality and this was a topic of conversation. The employer (a government entity) can not ban a firearm from her car. I work for a private company. I have asked this question as well. They have no interest in what is in my car, unless there was something illegal in plain view.
This is a non-issue.
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
Dr. Fresh wrote:
So, even though they asked about something they have a perfect right to, compliance with company policies/rules, you would lie to them.
OK. You would lie to get them off your back.
Dr. Fresh wrote:
So, even though they asked about something they have a perfect right to, compliance with company policies/rules, you would lie to them.
OK. You would lie to get them off your back.
imported post
Just lock it in a secret compartment. Or carry super concealed like a thigh holster or ankle or pocket. your life is more important than your job right>? besides, it feels good to thumb your nose at your liberal employers back
Just lock it in a secret compartment. Or carry super concealed like a thigh holster or ankle or pocket. your life is more important than your job right>? besides, it feels good to thumb your nose at your liberal employers back
Vandal
Regular Member
imported post
Hank, that is one of the few times I would lie. My employers have no reason to be snooping around in my car, which IMO, is private and personal property. I would answer that "yes, I am following company policy" and walk away.
My companies quoted policy is "Possession of firearms or other weapons on dealership premises or in dealership vehicles is prohibited."
I feel that my personal safety trumps this policy.
What would you do Hank?
Hank, that is one of the few times I would lie. My employers have no reason to be snooping around in my car, which IMO, is private and personal property. I would answer that "yes, I am following company policy" and walk away.
My companies quoted policy is "Possession of firearms or other weapons on dealership premises or in dealership vehicles is prohibited."
I feel that my personal safety trumps this policy.
What would you do Hank?
thefirststrike
Regular Member
imported post
Well, these are all good answers and prettymuch what I have been doing anyway, keeping it locked up and out of view. My mistake was in making a "joke" with afriendat work,within hearing distance of someone (probably someone who knows thatI OC, as several people at work do) who hasseen me out and about with it on. Theydecided that I was serious, and then reported that I might have a weapon in my car. Everyone knows that I am a hunter and own several long-guns as well.
So I got called into a meeting with HR yesterdayand they asked me about it, and "reminded" me that I signed the handbook and acknowledged that company policy says that I am not allowed to have a weapon on the property.
They also asked meat that time if I had a weapon in my car (which I did) and after several moments of thought I simplysaid "I choose not to answer that question". (In retrospect probably not the best answer). They had the balls to say "Well, we aren't going to search your car", which of course I knew they had no right to do anyway.
I probably should have just said no and left it at that. I just need to learn to keep my big mouth shut.
Thanks to everyone for their input. I was just curious what everyone thought and what the laws were. I am looking for a new job, so maybe I won't be here much longer anyway.
Dave
Well, these are all good answers and prettymuch what I have been doing anyway, keeping it locked up and out of view. My mistake was in making a "joke" with afriendat work,within hearing distance of someone (probably someone who knows thatI OC, as several people at work do) who hasseen me out and about with it on. Theydecided that I was serious, and then reported that I might have a weapon in my car. Everyone knows that I am a hunter and own several long-guns as well.
So I got called into a meeting with HR yesterdayand they asked me about it, and "reminded" me that I signed the handbook and acknowledged that company policy says that I am not allowed to have a weapon on the property.
They also asked meat that time if I had a weapon in my car (which I did) and after several moments of thought I simplysaid "I choose not to answer that question". (In retrospect probably not the best answer). They had the balls to say "Well, we aren't going to search your car", which of course I knew they had no right to do anyway.
I probably should have just said no and left it at that. I just need to learn to keep my big mouth shut.
Thanks to everyone for their input. I was just curious what everyone thought and what the laws were. I am looking for a new job, so maybe I won't be here much longer anyway.
Dave
bobestes
Regular Member
imported post
This is an interesting proposition, however, in actuality when it comes to real property, there is no longer any such thing as private property in this country. It's all owned by the government, and we just pay rent. If you don't believe me, stop paying your rent (called property tax) and see how long before your landlord evicts you. Here in Grays Harbor County it is usually three years.
This is an interesting proposition, however, in actuality when it comes to real property, there is no longer any such thing as private property in this country. It's all owned by the government, and we just pay rent. If you don't believe me, stop paying your rent (called property tax) and see how long before your landlord evicts you. Here in Grays Harbor County it is usually three years.
John Hardin
Regular Member
imported post
HankT wrote:
HankT wrote:
On this subject, yes.
David.Car
Regular Member
imported post
Do whatever you want but know that your employer is allowed to terminate you for it. You have no legal right to possess or store your firearm on someones property just because you have business there. This includes in your car.
It is their property, they make the rules, you follow those rulesor risk termination. Simple as that.
Unless you are like me and work security... Then it becomes illegal tostore a firearm in your vehicle while working. So being fired would be the least of my worries at that point.
Do whatever you want but know that your employer is allowed to terminate you for it. You have no legal right to possess or store your firearm on someones property just because you have business there. This includes in your car.
It is their property, they make the rules, you follow those rulesor risk termination. Simple as that.
Unless you are like me and work security... Then it becomes illegal tostore a firearm in your vehicle while working. So being fired would be the least of my worries at that point.
Aaron1124
Regular Member
imported post
John Hardin wrote:
John Hardin wrote:
Exactly. Unless of course, you're one of those people whose guilty conscience will eat at them if they lie.
Batousaii
Regular Member
imported post
GeeeeZussss Hank, You like a freekin little kid that can't stop the pestering little questions that angle to corner someone into a mistake. Why don't you go mess with California or something, i hear they freely give change to those in need. And with all of their built up frustration, i bet you could even start a real life e-argument.
Dude, you really feel the need to corner people into awkward situations ?? And then you wonder why people don't like you in their threads ??? Or maybe you have some sick sense of enthusiasm for making others uncomfortable..... or maybe just you really are just a troll..... you haven't provided the proof to put me in error.... fail... try again.. <insert quarter here>.
GeeeeZ dude....
Really ?
Shoooo Shooo .....
and my apologise to the state forum for a torrent rebuke to Hank, just felt it needed to be said.
:?Bat.
GeeeeZussss Hank, You like a freekin little kid that can't stop the pestering little questions that angle to corner someone into a mistake. Why don't you go mess with California or something, i hear they freely give change to those in need. And with all of their built up frustration, i bet you could even start a real life e-argument.
Dude, you really feel the need to corner people into awkward situations ?? And then you wonder why people don't like you in their threads ??? Or maybe you have some sick sense of enthusiasm for making others uncomfortable..... or maybe just you really are just a troll..... you haven't provided the proof to put me in error.... fail... try again.. <insert quarter here>.
GeeeeZ dude....
Really ?
Shoooo Shooo .....
and my apologise to the state forum for a torrent rebuke to Hank, just felt it needed to be said.
:?Bat.
massivedesign
Regular Member
imported post
One of the many reason I am sooo glad that I own my own business lol. Heck, even one of the clients I work for is pro-gun, and there are a handful of CC people in the office all the time.
It's a professional office too. Just keep it covered and nobody cares. I bent over the other day and president of my client said "hmmm, carrying the XD today"? And laughed because I was printing through my sweatshirt..
Need a new holster lol..
One of the many reason I am sooo glad that I own my own business lol. Heck, even one of the clients I work for is pro-gun, and there are a handful of CC people in the office all the time.
It's a professional office too. Just keep it covered and nobody cares. I bent over the other day and president of my client said "hmmm, carrying the XD today"? And laughed because I was printing through my sweatshirt..
Need a new holster lol..
Batousaii
Regular Member
imported post
Now, for an ON TOPIC reply.
- I often wish the state would realise the difference between private property as a domicile, dwelling or resident, compared to a private property that is open to the public. I feel there is a huge difference between my friend asking me to not have a weapon in his/her house -v.s- Going to his/her store where the general public is expected to just walk through the door and grab things off the shelf (of course they give you money in exchange).
- Person opens the door and walks in your house and begins removing items out of the freezer andwalks over to you topay for it.... Whats your reaction
- Person opens the door and walks into your store begins removing items from the freezer and walks to the counter to pay for it.... whats your reaction.
... So i am sure we would have two clearly separate reactions to the two scenarios, so it would clearly be two separate differences between a dwelling and open to the public.
When an area is open to the public, would we not reasonable expect the public to "come as they are" rather that to curtail what would other wise be a protected right ? The gun in and of itself is not an offensive article (example: T-Shirt with lude swearing or pictorials). And the gun by itself is not a flag or identifier that could incite others to violent retaliation (like gang related bandanna or throwing gang signs). So in that light, should private property open to the public be allowed to trump our rights of protection? Should we not consider the differences between the two forms of private property and to what degree the public should be expected to curtail their normal way of life, especially if that way of life is not naturally designed to conduct illegal or violent activities (comparing law abiding gun owners to gang members).
- The right to protect their properties - yes - the right to curtail normally legal rights ???- lets re consider the light of them being open to the public.
Just my thoughts...
Bat
Now, for an ON TOPIC reply.
- I often wish the state would realise the difference between private property as a domicile, dwelling or resident, compared to a private property that is open to the public. I feel there is a huge difference between my friend asking me to not have a weapon in his/her house -v.s- Going to his/her store where the general public is expected to just walk through the door and grab things off the shelf (of course they give you money in exchange).
- Person opens the door and walks in your house and begins removing items out of the freezer andwalks over to you topay for it.... Whats your reaction
- Person opens the door and walks into your store begins removing items from the freezer and walks to the counter to pay for it.... whats your reaction.
... So i am sure we would have two clearly separate reactions to the two scenarios, so it would clearly be two separate differences between a dwelling and open to the public.
When an area is open to the public, would we not reasonable expect the public to "come as they are" rather that to curtail what would other wise be a protected right ? The gun in and of itself is not an offensive article (example: T-Shirt with lude swearing or pictorials). And the gun by itself is not a flag or identifier that could incite others to violent retaliation (like gang related bandanna or throwing gang signs). So in that light, should private property open to the public be allowed to trump our rights of protection? Should we not consider the differences between the two forms of private property and to what degree the public should be expected to curtail their normal way of life, especially if that way of life is not naturally designed to conduct illegal or violent activities (comparing law abiding gun owners to gang members).
- The right to protect their properties - yes - the right to curtail normally legal rights ???- lets re consider the light of them being open to the public.
Just my thoughts...
Bat44Brent
Regular Member
imported post
Just because this is an "open carry" forum doesn't mean that I, or anyone else has to "open carry" all the time. There's a time and place for concealment.
Unenforceable company policies are not enforceable.
Just because this is an "open carry" forum doesn't mean that I, or anyone else has to "open carry" all the time. There's a time and place for concealment.
Unenforceable company policies are not enforceable.
Bill Starks
State Researcher
imported post
My company leases the parking garage where most all the employees park. The garage space is also available to the public all day long. I talked to my head of security and was told "we are not going out and searching vehicles." However when I carry I still park down the street at another garage. They pay me really, really well and I like my job and the 5 weeks a year vacation that comes with it.
Thunderwear........
My company leases the parking garage where most all the employees park. The garage space is also available to the public all day long. I talked to my head of security and was told "we are not going out and searching vehicles." However when I carry I still park down the street at another garage. They pay me really, really well and I like my job and the 5 weeks a year vacation that comes with it.
Thunderwear........
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
thefirststrike wrote:
Sorry to read that you got canned, TFS.
I think you did fine in the HR meeting, considering the circumstances.
I think you were in no-win scenario, a Kobayashi Maru. So, it's primarily a test of character.
The idea to carry your gun onto company property in violation of a clear and understandable (and agreed to) prohibition against that was not a good one. Sure, guys like gogodawgs, n16ht15, Aaron1124, etc., will stalwartly, even stubbornly suggest it. But they have no skin in the game. Not your game, anyway.
Good luck. Hope things work out for you.
P.S. Costly "joke," BTW. Another bad idea. There's a time and place to joke about gun stuff. And it ain't at that kind of workplace...
thefirststrike wrote:
Sorry to read that you got canned, TFS.
I think you did fine in the HR meeting, considering the circumstances.
I think you were in no-win scenario, a Kobayashi Maru. So, it's primarily a test of character.
The idea to carry your gun onto company property in violation of a clear and understandable (and agreed to) prohibition against that was not a good one. Sure, guys like gogodawgs, n16ht15, Aaron1124, etc., will stalwartly, even stubbornly suggest it. But they have no skin in the game. Not your game, anyway.
Good luck. Hope things work out for you.
P.S. Costly "joke," BTW. Another bad idea. There's a time and place to joke about gun stuff. And it ain't at that kind of workplace...
TechnoWeenie
Regular Member
imported post
Employment in WA is at will, they need no reason to fire you.
They can VERY EASILY, AND LEGALLY say 'I want to search your car, or we're going to fire you'..
You have the right to disallow the search, they have the right to not employ you.
The only thing saving your ass would be a company policy disallowing such searches, or a 'you can only be fired if...' and it doesn't fall under one of those categories...
Employment in WA is at will, they need no reason to fire you.
They can VERY EASILY, AND LEGALLY say 'I want to search your car, or we're going to fire you'..
You have the right to disallow the search, they have the right to not employ you.
The only thing saving your ass would be a company policy disallowing such searches, or a 'you can only be fired if...' and it doesn't fall under one of those categories...
0V3RC10CK3D
Regular Member
imported post
1. Keep it in your car, locked in the glovebox or whatnot out of sight.
2. Lie about it if asked (why would you be asked and who cares if you lie)
3. Don't allow them to search your car.
4. Find a better job.
A lot of this seems to be a non issue, don't ask don't tell, Nobody knows the difference. Keep what you do at work and what you do elsewhere seperate, my employer has no clue to if I even own a gun.
1. Keep it in your car, locked in the glovebox or whatnot out of sight.
2. Lie about it if asked (why would you be asked and who cares if you lie)
3. Don't allow them to search your car.
4. Find a better job.
A lot of this seems to be a non issue, don't ask don't tell, Nobody knows the difference. Keep what you do at work and what you do elsewhere seperate, my employer has no clue to if I even own a gun.
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
0V3RC10CK3D wrote:
What about a man's word is his bond?
0V3RC10CK3D wrote:
0V3RC10CK3D wrote:
I agree with this. This is good advice, generally and it's EXCELLENTadvice at companies who have specific and enforceable policies against guns on company property.
0V3RC10CK3D wrote:
"Who cares?"
What about a man's word is his bond?
0V3RC10CK3D wrote:
How in heck can it be a "non-issue?" The guy got fired! And his company did know the difference! Have you read this thread?
0V3RC10CK3D wrote:
I agree with this. This is good advice, generally and it's EXCELLENTadvice at companies who have specific and enforceable policies against guns on company property.