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Thread: 'Latest: How gun registration laws impact police', WAOW.com Wausau TV-9

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    http://www.waow.com/Global/story.asp?S=11402816

    Video link on the page.

    by Meg Bonacorsi
    WAUASU (WAOW) -- Earlier this month, we told you about a group of students who found a loaded handgun in an alley near Lincoln Elementary School in Wausau.

    The students told their school principal, then police started an investigation.

    Investigators found that the gun is registered to a Waukesha man, but he says he sold it a few years back and doesn't knowwhothe current owner is.

    Now this situation left us with questions about gun registration and how it impacts police investigations.

    police say the issue of gun registration can be tough because they support people's second amendment rights, but they still have to do their jobs too.

    By law, guns only need to be registered when they're purchased through a licensed dealer. If you give them away or sell them privately or at a gun show registration isn't required.

    Deputy Chief Brian Hilts with the Wausau Police Department says, "It can make the source of a firearm difficult to track down."

    Marathon County Sheriff's Lt. Dale Wisnewski says, "It can be frustrating because sometimes the lead that we want, the information we need is, who is the registered owner, who's the last owner of the weapon."

    But there's a reason for current registration laws.

    Wisnewski says, "You have a group of people that believe that that's a good thing that they don't want to have their name on a list for protectional privacy and to protect their second amendment rights."

    And police respect that too.

    Wisnewski says, "It's something that we constantly deal with and we understand both sides of it. And we're not going to push for one way or another because both have valid arguments."

    Even if laws were different, police don't think it would make it much easier for them to solve crimes because, "Crimes are committed with guns that are obtained illegally and so of course there wouldn't be any ownership registration there no matter what kind of restrictions the laws put in place," Hilts says.




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    Coincidentally, from JPFO today

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/33438.html

    http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/et...raud.htm%C2%A0

    Not coincidentally their comments script is FUBAR to the max and wasted my time.

    On other Second Amendment news aggregator sites I commented

    RIGHTS TRUMP JOBS EVERYTIME!


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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Doug, even the new edited link is coming up as bogus, maybe list how to find the article your are asking that we read, like"

    is this the article? http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/etrace-fraud.htm

    or this? http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20091026.htm

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    Of course I'm against registration, but I do think it's rather irresponsible to get rid of a gun and not get info on the buyer. At least CYA for my own peace of mind.



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    Interesting that the news report considers the record of sale at a dealer to be "registration" - but it is not so simple - if a dealer sells a gun to a nondealer, an ATF Form 4473 records the sale, yes. But the police can only trace guns upon lawful investigation with ATF help from manufacturor or importer to the first retail dealer, and then via Form 4473 to the first retail purchaser. if a dealer acquires a used gun, and then sells it, that 4473 does not effect registration in the same way as the ATF trace would not show that gun being in the dealer's inventory like it would a new gun.

    In any event, private sales and gifts are the key to breaking the link on federal gun registration - I would urge gun owners to NOT keep lists or files of people they have sold guns too - why help federal gun registration?

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    Mike wrote:
    I would urge gun owners to NOT keep lists or files of people they have sold guns too - why help federal gun registration?
    No good will come from this type of attitude/non-cooperation. If anything, itwould put a national gun registration law on the fast track. Tracebility of a firearm is not registration. Registration that we allfear is wherethe gov't can put our name in a database and pull up a list of all firearms we own. Little do we realize, that actually already exists in some form. Normally when you buy a gun all the state/fedsknow is what type. Buy 2 or more handguns at atime and thedescriptions, caliber and serial numbers get faxed to the ATF.



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    JimE wrote:
    No good will come from this type of attitude/non-cooperation. If anything, itwould put a national gun registration law on the fast track. Tracebility of a firearm is not registration. Registration that we allfear is wherethe gov't can put our name in a database and pull up a list of all firearms we own. Little do we realize, that actually already exists in some form. Normally when you buy a gun all the state/fedsknow is what type. Buy 2 or more handguns at atime and thedescriptions, caliber and serial numbers get faxed to the ATF.
    An eager statist, forever impeached.

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    JimE wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    I would urge gun owners to NOT keep lists or files of people they have sold guns too - why help federal gun registration?
    No good will come from this type of attitude/non-cooperation. If anything, itwould put a national gun registration law on the fast track. Tracebility of a firearm is not registration. Registration that we allfear is wherethe gov't can put our name in a database and pull up a list of all firearms we own. Little do we realize, that actually already exists in some form. Normally when you buy a gun all the state/fedsknow is what type. Buy 2 or more handguns at atime and thedescriptions, caliber and serial numbers get faxed to the ATF.

    JimE - There are sights such as the Sportsmen for Obama that would love to count you amongst their ranks. Resisting "reasonable" gun control makes us unreasonable, right?

    Seriously, how much gun control is OK?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I guess I don't see "covering your own butt" and cooperating with the police to catch a bad guy as a gun control measure.

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    Until you mentioned it, there were no Bad Guys in this thread. Having, carrying, a gun to the disapproval of the cops does not make one a Bad Guy.

    If a felon may properly be disbarred his rights under color of law then we can all be legally disarmed by sufficiently lowering the bar of 'felony' as has been done to domestic violators, diagnosed vets and, now you would have, citizens resistant to an intrusive government.

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    Do what you want.



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    As Kommandant Oberst Willhelm Klink usta say, "DISMISSED!"

    As Gen-wannabes say, "Whateverr!"

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    Maybe I failed to comprehend something in the article referenced. I have to ask the question of why would the police need to investigate anything? What is the point of "tracking" a found gun? At first blush, some might say well of course you have to find out where it came from. Why? Is there some indication it was used in a crime? Does it have blood on it? Was there an armed robbery in the area?

    I don't accept the notion that simply because it is a gun, it must be thoroughly investigated. It's not like they found an unexploded pipe bomb, which I would surmise is generally illegal, or a military grade weapon.

    Okay, a gun was found. Lacking any other indication of a crime, throw it in an evidence bag and file it, or at most do a ballistics test and see if matches any recent crimes they might have. All I see is they're turning nothing into something.

    Just a morning rant before a cup of joe.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Until you mentioned it, there were no Bad Guys in this thread. Having, carrying, a gun to the disapproval of the cops does not make one a Bad Guy.

    If a felon may properly be disbarred his rights under color of law then we can all be legally disarmed by sufficiently lowering the bar of 'felony' as has been done to domestic violators, diagnosed vets and, now you would have, citizens resistant to an intrusive government.
    Now that you mention it, some felons are convicted of nothing more than not paying child support. Does that sound like something a person should loose their RKBA for?

    I think not.

    Our legislators have went wild with authority to the point of abuse.

    Funny thing about laws regarding child support. Most of the time the courts don't enforce them.

    My step daughters sperm donor has parents who won the Michigan Lottery, some 6,000,000.00 and they own a huge dairy operation which he works daily. He went to the court and said he is disabled and can't work (even though he works on a daily basis) the local court refused to prosecute. It wasn't until the AG took him to court that he was convicted of a felony. Even after that the local court judge still babies him because he is a local boy.

    So he works and collect SSD and still can't keep up with Child support.

    With that do I think he belongs in jail, yes. Do I think he deserves a felony, yes.
    Do I think he should lose his RKBA, NO!

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    How did they find the first owner? Could it be GUN REGISTRATION!

    All they need to do is purge all the records and they won't have to worry
    that someone sells a gun to someone else.

    I guess the crime was 1000' school zone.
    Just dust for fingerprints on gun and ammo and run them through the system.
    Then throw it into the lost and found, place notice in paper and owner will claim
    it or not.

    If no one claims the gun after 60 days, does the kid who found it get it then, or when he turns 18/21?




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