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Thread: Gasp!!! The UK... Gun Crime!?

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    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490


    Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold. The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.....

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    To me, this proves the old adage, "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".

    No doubt.

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    When I bring up that point to antis, they have been claiming that of course gun violence is going to increase until guns are banned *everywhere*. You can't win with these people.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    And in the same period of time we have greatly re-established the right of American citizens to carry self-defense firearms and let the AWB expire and our violent/gun crime rates have dropped... hhhmmmm
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The AWB expired? Does this mean I can use the hidden happy switch on my PS-90 now?

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    You mean, in a western "civilized" country where personal firearms ownership is all but completely banned, they have rising gun crime? How can such a thing possibly be!

    I love how they poked the blame on America for being a bad influence. GMAFB. :quirky

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    antispam540 wrote:
    The AWB expired? Does this mean I can use the hidden happy switch on my PS-90 now?
    Please God, let him be talking about his PS-90 carbine...

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Well we have a government in office that thinks we should answer to the UN.The un has been advocating for along time that America need to give up their guns.We are Americans fellas we don't answer to the UN nor do we owe apologies to anyone.We have the Constitution .They hate that.They also know that according to a pole I sawon CNN a long time ago American citizens own approx 67 % of all the guns on the planet.They can't control us as long as that is the case.I my mind anyone that supports handing over any rights to the UN or the UN should be tried for treason and dealt with accordingly.God help any UN soldier I ever see in our streets.That would be an invasion of a hostile foriegn army that would need to be dispatched with extreme predjudice.

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    Hidden Happy Switch? Hypothetically, if someone else on this forum had a PS-90, ..*cough*, *cough*, where might they go to learn more about implementing such a thing?

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    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    tricityguy wrote:
    Hidden Happy Switch? Hypothetically, if someone else on this forum had a PS-90, ..*cough*, *cough*, where might they go to learn more about implementing such a thing?
    They would take it to PM...

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    I broke the first rule of hidden happy switch sorry.

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    if you were raised in canada or any other country your views on guns would be different.

    http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/guncrimetab.htm

    and uk firearms crime is really non existant compared to the US

    uk = 1 firearm crime per 6,000 people

    us = 1 firearm crime per 300 people

    canada = 1 firearm crime per 3,000 people



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    Define "fire arm crime" - are we talking violent crime, or people being arrested for carrying without a license or "public endangerment" or "disturbing the peace"?

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    if you were raised in canada or any other country your views on guns would be different.

    http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/guncrimetab.htm

    and uk firearms crime is really non existant compared to the US

    uk = 1 firearm crime per 6,000 people

    us = 1 firearm crime per 300 people

    canada = 1 firearm crime per 3,000 people

    Any other Country? Come on, BB. Pretty sure your views are going to be quite different if you're from Afghanistan, Somalia, Darfur, England, Canada... Pretty general claim you're makin there...

    Let's break it down some more being as numbers are so fun. How many of those crimes are committed by law abiding citizens? Oh, NONE!

    Now let us go to the flip side of the spectrum. According to John Lott Jr in his book, "More Guns, Less Crime", firearms are used by law abiding citizens in the United States somewhere between 400,000 and 7,000,000 times a year to prevent a violent crime. Granted, his research only spanned a period of 15 years...

    Summary: Guns are good!

    Mr. Lott has a pretty interesting back story. Before he started the research for his book, he was VERY anti-gun. Now he carries and advocates training and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms!

    Goes to show that if youobjectively look at the facts (and his came from all 3000+ U.S. Counties) then you'll be persuaded to the truth. Takes an open mind. Many aren't willing to accept numbers. Their argument is all about emotion, not facts.



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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Commodore76 wrote:
    Boo Boo wrote:
    if you were raised in canada or any other country your views on guns would be different.

    http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/glance/tables/guncrimetab.htm

    and uk firearms crime is really non existant compared to the US

    uk = 1 firearm crime per 6,000 people

    us = 1 firearm crime per 300 people

    canada = 1 firearm crime per 3,000 people

    Any other Country? Come on, BB. Pretty sure your views are going to be quite different if you're from Afghanistan, Somalia, Darfur, England, Canada... Pretty general claim you're makin there...

    Let's break it down some more being as numbers are so fun. How many of those crimes are committed by law abiding citizens? Oh, NONE!

    Now let us go to the flip side of the spectrum. According to John Lott Jr in his book, "More Guns, Less Crime", firearms are used by law abiding citizens in the United States somewhere between 400,000 and 7,000,000 times a year to prevent a violent crime. Granted, his research only spanned a period of 15 years...

    Summary: Guns are good!

    Mr. Lott has a pretty interesting back story. Before he started the research for his book, he was VERY anti-gun. Now he carries and advocates training and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms!

    Goes to show that if youobjectively look at the facts (and his came from all 3000+ U.S. Counties) then you'll be persuaded to the truth. Takes an open mind. Many aren't willing to accept numbers. Their argument is all about emotion, not facts.

    Thats a good point Commodor,

    So, to look at those kinds of figures objectively... Even taken at face value that less guns equal less "gun crime" overall, less guns ALSO equals less gun defense and makes in turn more or equal violent crime, and thereby more victims.

    I don't know about you all, but I would rather hold my own fate in my hands and take the chance of hurting myself (or accepting the responsibility if I hurt another) with my firearm, than to leave my fate in anothers hands, effectively leaving my fate at the good graces of the criminal.

    Another disturbing trend these "civilized" countries that are disarming their citizens are forwarding is to push the idea that criminals have more or equal rights than the victim even while they are perpetrating the crime! This is effectively creating a culture in which the people are expected to be "good victims" and just accept their fate, because God forbid you should attempt to defend yourself.

    "Just run away or give them what they want" say the political elite from behind their secured, gated homes and body guards.

    Well of course it seems logical to THEM! :X

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    I think a huge problem is that we are such a dependant people when you look at our society as a whole. If we have problems with out water, we call a plumber. For the car, we have a mechanic. Whatever the problem, it seems more acceptable to have someone else come to the rescue instead of handling whatever issue on our own.

    That was a huge reason I started my company. I wanted to provide a means for people to take charge of their own security and not have to rely on one of the big name, monitored companies. You will get a faster response if you handle it on your own!

    Back to the idea of self defense, many out there would have you do just that. CALL SOMEONE (911). While I don't suggest skipping that step, I would submit that LEO's usually end up arriving after fact. While they would LOVE to be able to prevent all crime, they simply can't. It's a game of numbers and it's not on their side. (Totally willing to debate this with ANYONE)

    The good doctrine of the sociatal elite is that you SHOULD just give the attacker what they want. The sad reality is that you don't know what they want until you've lost control of the situation and you're at the mercy of the attacker.

    I, like many of you, have taken a stand. I am one more person that the criminals at large need to be worried about. People like us make it a hazardous work environment for the criminal. Thank God for those who have taken up the sword! (figurative)

    (For those who would now call into question my safe handling and training with firearms? Lol, DON'T!)

    Respectfully,

    Commodore

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