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Thread: Geo18.2-287.4 & Longarms in vehicles

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I made this map to show where one can have a loaded longgun in their vehicle.
    ETA: To give credit where it is due I borrowed the Geospatial enforcement map from Virginia1774.org, and just added the red for localities banning loaded longarms in vehicles and yellow for those that ban them during certain times and orange means assault firearms are banned but permit holders are excepted and other long guns are allowed in vehicles.

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    I assume this is in reference to hunting rules & regs, etc?



    I was under the impression so long as loaded mag is not inserted into rifle (and presumably in a trunk or other locked case) you're fine and can't be tagged by the game wardens for hunting.
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think thats pretty much true, probably more practical in many cases, I made the map in response to a discussion over on ARFCOM asking about loaded vehicular carry.

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    I might be missing it but what does orange mean?

    EDIT: found it from your arfcom post:

    the red counties ban all loaded longarms, the orange ban assault firearms(permit holders exempted), the yellow ban loaded longguns during certain times.


    nice looking map (geog student here )

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    What is the definition of a "loaded gun" in Virginia. I know it changes depending on what state you are in.
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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Nice Map.

    I wonder what kind of permit is required in the Red counties? Would it be a hunting permit or a CCW? Of course it does not really matter much when you are surrounded by counties that do not allow long gun carry on three sides and DC to the north.

    Of course all of this begs the question of why you would would even leave the security of your home if society has degraded to the point that we need to carry a long gun for defense when out and about.

    Regards
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    or a CCW?
    You mean "concealed handgun permit"?

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    or a CCW?
    You mean "concealed handgun permit"?
    Please excuse my ancientness, but yes.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    or a CCW?
    You mean "concealed handgun permit"?
    Please excuse my ancientness, but yes.
    It used to be a CWP, concealed weapons permit - changed in 1995, I believe. To my knowledge, it has never been a CCW in Va.

    Now as we all know, it is a CHP.

    Yata hey
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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    or a CCW?
    You mean "concealed handgun permit"?
    Please excuse my ancientness, but yes.
    It used to be a CWP, concealed weapons permit - changed in 1995, I believe.Â* To my knowledge, it has never been a CCW in Va.

    Now as we all know, it is a CHP.

    Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Yata hey
    No argument here.

    However it is just possible, very remotely possible, but possible none the less, that a few of us on the forum may have, not recently mind you but at some point in our lives, some of us mind you not all of us, may have gone someplace other than Virginia where these things might have at one time been referred to as permits for the "Concealed Carry of Weapons". This of course was long long ago in a place far far away... In some places these things are actually referred to as PCC!! Can you imagine!! A Permit to Carry Concealed!! Who do these people think they are? Do people actually think they are free to use the english language anyway they please?

    Antiquated terminology to be certain, but obviously still useful since EVERYONE knew exactly what I meant, so much so that the people who were bored waiting for the game to start jumped right on that and missed the questions I posed.

    So I admit that in a fit of typing speed, uncommon, and equally unwise in a in a man of my age, I may have had a short lapse and reverted to terminology of another time and place. After all it was a bit drab out this morning, and I was thinking of being someplace else. So naturally this sort of thing is likely to happen. Situational awareness problem I suppose. Since I am aware that this sort of thing never happens to anyone on internet forums, I suppose I will have to go sit in the penalty box again.

    In any case I now recognize that my use of this term will end civilization as we know it unless I repent, so please accept that I will give this issue all of the respect I feel it is due.

    Now back to the topical discussions ODCO is so noted for... Oh wait a minute, this is ... Never mind.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:

    No argument here.

    However it is just possible, very remotely possible, but possible none the less, that a few of us on the forum may have, not recently mind you but at some point in our lives, some of us mind you not all of us, may have gone someplace other than Virginia where these things might have at one time been referred to as permits for the "Concealed Carry of Weapons". This of course was long long ago in a place far far away... In some places these things are actually referred to as PCC!! Can you imagine!! A Permit to Carry Concealed!! Who do these people think they are? Do people actually think they are free to use the english language anyway they please?

    Antiquated terminology to be certain, but obviously still useful since EVERYONE knew exactly what I meant, so much so that the people who were bored waiting for the game to start jumped right on that and missed the questions I posed.

    So I admit that in a fit of typing speed, uncommon, and equally unwise in a in a man of my age, I may have had a short lapse and reverted to terminology of another time and place. After all it was a bit drab out this morning, and I was thinking of being someplace else. So naturally this sort of thing is likely to happen. Situational awareness problem I suppose. Since I am aware that this sort of thing never happens to anyone on internet forums, I suppose I will have to go sit in the penalty box again.

    In any case I now recognize that my use of this term will end civilization as we know it unless I repent, so please accept that I will give this issue all of the respect I feel it is due.

    Now back to the topical discussions ODCO is so noted for... Oh wait a minute, this is ... Never mind.
    Good, I'm glad you realize the seriousness of your written gaff. Two more strikes and you are out. :celebrateThe fate of the western world depends are your precise and clear written communications.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    I made this map to show where one can have a loaded longgun in their vehicle.
    ETA: To give credit where it is due I borrowed the Geospatial enforcement map from Virginia1774.org, and just added the red for localities banning loaded longarms in vehicles and yellow for those that ban them during certain times and orange means assault firearms are banned but permit holders are excepted and other long guns are allowed in vehicles.
    Under what authority do they ban loaded long guns in vehicles?
    § 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.


    Capacity of hand guns & long guns is limited in specified cities/counties (CHP holders exempted) but there is not an "assault firearms" ban.

    § 18.2-287.4, Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    In short, I am somewhat perplexed by this map and the allegations derived from it. Please explain.

    Yata hey


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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Of course the following does not mention a firearm will be confiscated and destroyed if convicted.
    § 15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Nice Map.

    I wonder what kind of permit is required in the Red counties? Would it be a hunting permit or a CCW? Of course it does not really matter much when you are surrounded by counties that do not allow long gun carry on three sides and DC to the north.

    Of course all of this begs the question of why you would would even leave the security of your home if society has degraded to the point that we need to carry a long gun for defense when out and about.

    Regards
    Unfortunately, there is nothing to be done about it. You just can't if you are a regular citizen. I concur, things are bad enough to require a loaded long arm you probably shouldn't leave home, however in such a situation there probably won't be many authorities around for very long to enforce such ban.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    Of course the following does not mention a firearm will be confiscated and destroyed if convicted.
    § 15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.
    Thank you Longwatch - I was missing this section in my reads.

    It would appear that this was intended to be hunting related not a self-defense restriction, but that is only my opinion - IANAL.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Indeed it is a hunting ordinance, but in practice I don't know very many people who could meet the 'in the course of employment or business' exception. Funny I used to think that most localities used this law but its interesting how few do.

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    Would it be possible to list the counites that have such bans ?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    xdm guy wrote:
    Would it be possible to list the counites that have such bans ?
    RED (No loaded longarms in vehicles)= Albemarle, Chesterfield, Clarke, Culpepper,Danville, Fauquier, Fredericksburg, James City, King George, Loudoun, Madison, New Kent, Northumberland, Petersburg, Richmond, Roanoke, Stafford, Surry, Virginia Beach, Warren, Williamsburg.

    YELLOW (Temporal bans on loaded longarms in vehicles)= South Hampton-Oct1-Feb15; Greensville Oct 1-Feb 15; Orange Co. during open season on deer; Goochland sundown to sunrise.

    ORANGE (No loaded 'assault firearms' except with CHP)=Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, Prince William, Henrico

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    xdm guy wrote:
    Would it be possible to list the counites that have such bans ?
    The easiest way is to get a copy of the state hunting regulations that are printed every year. They are available anywhere you can purchase a hunting license. There is a lot of good information in them including methods to mark your property for no trespassing.
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    longwatch wrote:
    xdm guy wrote:
    Would it be possible to list the counites that have such bans ?
    RED (No loaded longarms in vehicles)= Albemarle, Chesterfield, Clarke, Culpepper,Danville, Fauquier, Fredericksburg, James City, King George, Loudoun, Madison, New Kent, Northumberland, Petersburg, Richmond, Roanoke, Stafford, Surry, Virginia Beach, Warren, Williamsburg.

    YELLOW (Temporal bans on loaded longarms in vehicles)= South Hampton-Oct1-Feb15; Greensville Oct 1-Feb 15; Orange Co. during open season on deer; Goochland sundown to sunrise.

    ORANGE (No loaded 'assault firearms' except with CHP)=Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, Prince William, Henrico
    Any over-lap between the Red and Orange Counties (Specifically Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, Prince William, Henrico)?
    It's somewhat hard to believe those in particular would allow long-arm-loaded-trans unless they just figure you can't long-arm hunt there anyways, so they didn't think of the Self-Defense implications...

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    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    nova wrote:

    nice looking map (geog student here )
    Could you then explain to us Christaller's Central Place theory or Carl Sauer's Environmental Determinism? How often do you mensurate? Have you ever used DTED data to calculate where tracked mobile launchers can operate depending on Slope? What's the difference between Universal Transverse Mercator and Transverse Mercator?

    I would think a Geographer would know these things.

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    Virginiaplanter wrote:
    nova wrote:

    nice looking map (geog student here )
    Could you then explain to us Christaller's Central Place theory or Carl Sauer's Environmental Determinism? How often do you mensurate? Have you ever used DTED data to calculate where tracked mobile launchers can operate depending on Slope? What's the difference between Universal Transverse Mercator and Transverse Mercator?

    I would think a Geographer would know these things.
    yes. In fact, I've already dealt with maps that show launch sites in the Soviet Union.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Longwatch,

    I am confused. Chesapeake and Norfolk are part of the Assault Weapons Ban except for CHP Holders (Section 18.2 287.4) but they are not red.
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