AD = ND? Yeah or Nay?

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The vast majority of "Accidental Discharges" are in fact Negligent.

My biggest peeve is when a news report says a firearm "went off." It didn't go off! The trigger was pulled and the weapon functioned exactly as it was designed to!

Modern weapons don't "go off."

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My own UD/AD story.


This past Friday night I was enjoying some range time with my girlfriend and
a friend of hers. After about and hour or so of them pounding away with her
Glock 23 and her friends Sig P220, They decided that they wanted to give my
Glock 20 10mm a try. I had fired about 200 rounds through it that night with no
problems. After about 2 more magazines, I hand the G20 to my g/f who takes the
pistol and a fresh magazine up to the firing line. As she prepares to fire, I hear
and see the pistol discharge, she unloads it, comes back to the bench, white as
a ghost, and says, "It went off when I closed the slide, I didn't pull the trigger!".

Thankfully, we all follow safe gun handling techniques, and the muzzle was always
in a safe direction, no one was injured.(The round actually struck the target, safely downrange)

She said she was certain that she didn't have her finger on the trigger. It scared
the living Shi# out of her. So, I field stripped the firearm, inspected it and found nothing out of the ordinary.

I took the pistol, with the remaining rounds in the magazine, stepped up to the firing line, Put the mag in the gun aimed at the target, and closed the slide. BANG! Slamfire...

The pistol is at the local Glock armorer as I type this.

So, IMHO, not all UD's/AD's are ND's Thoughts ?

~Springfield

edited for spelling.

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I agree that there was nothing you did wrong, but it was 100% preventable. Perhaps preventable shouldn't equate to Negligent Discharge.

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UtahJarhead wrote:

I agree that there was nothing you did wrong, but it was 100% preventable. Perhaps preventable shouldn't equate to Negligent Discharge.

Click to expand...

How was the initial slamfire preventable ? That's what I'm curious about....

~~Springfield

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Hmmm... good point. It would imply you would have an armorer inspect the gun between every round.

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Springfield45 wrote:

UtahJarhead wrote:

I agree that there was nothing you did wrong, but it was 100% preventable. Perhaps preventable shouldn't equate to Negligent Discharge.

Click to expand...

How was the initial slamfire preventable ? That's what I'm curious about....

~~Springfield

Click to expand...

That would depend on what the smith discovers the problem was... If the problem was caused because the gun wasn't cleaned properly, or the ammo used was corrosive, or the manufacturer recommends that it be inspected or re-tooled after x000 rds.... Then it could be seen as 'preventable', however, I would call it 'unintentional' and say that you followed good protocol!
$h!t DOES happen from time to time.... However, MOST UDs ARE inFact, Negligent!

Of course, IMO, the fact that you were using a Glock was 'negligent'.... But then again, I seriously dislike and distrust Glocks... (yes, I have personal reasons for this, both that I have directly seen, and that have directly happened to me, in addition to the many 'failure' accounts floating around the net...)

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The vast majority ofunintentional discharges of firearmsare the direct result of something the shooter did that should have been handled differently. That points to ND.

OTOH, the vast majority of automobile accidents are the result of one or more of the drivers involved doing something they should not have done, and we still refer to those kind of incidents as "accidents".

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ilbob wrote:

The vast majority ofunintentional discharges of firearmsare the direct result of something the shooter did that should have been handled differently. That points to ND.

OTOH, the vast majority of automobile accidents are the result of one or more of the drivers involved doing something they should not have done, and we still refer to those kind of incidents as "accidents".

Click to expand...

Some police forces and some news media are no longer using the term accident to refer to a vehiclecollision/wreck..... Very seldom is it an accident, more like stupidity in the majority of cases and does not deserve to be called an accident.

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Some police forces and some news media are no longer using the term accident to refer to a vehiclecollision/wreck..... Very seldom is it an accident, more like stupidity in the majority of cases and does not deserve to be called an accident.

Click to expand...

Of course it's an accident. Look up the definition of accident, or just read this thread. Accidental is synonymous with unintentional. Do you actually believe people are frequently driving into each other on purpose?

Of course the majority of accidents are caused by negligence/stupidity. That doesn't warrant redefining the word accident.

Remember, people (news media included) often don't understand the terminology they use, saying things like "NDs are not ADs" or "there are no ADs," referring to magazines as clips or to cartridges as bullets, and apparently now saying that auto collisions are not accidental.

Back to the topic at hand, it's pretty simple: All NDs are ADs, but not all ADs and NDs. NDs are a subset of ADs, which are sometimes call Unintentional Discharges.

Most ADs are attributable to negligence, and and can appropriately be called NDs, as it emphasizes what could have been done to avoid the accident. I usually stick with the AD descriptor for mechanical failure, etc.

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The simple rule of thumb.....

ND = civilian shooting
AD = leo shooting
This one gets contradicted very rarely.:cuss:


We do need a SD though, to many Stupid Discharges to count.
The safe or shoot gun safety bullet to the brain incident comes to mind.
DC subway sandwich employee who shot himself multiple times. (in a GFZ)
Hunting with Chaney and shooting a lawyer.:lol:

What category do they put the new smart guns / ammo in?
If the bullet is set to take out the bad guy 200 yards away and it takes out
your buddy 70 feet from you.

How about both.... You shoot yourself in foot with a ND, gun falls to ground goes off
and hits someone else AD. I will give you that you were not prepared for shooting
yourself that causes the accident.

Dropping trou, gun falls to floor, maybe AD but I don't think so, leave behind cleaning
crew whacks it with the mob, AD for them ND for you.

Closest to an AD is when government forces you to load and unload at the doors
or trunk of car. It is the mandated stupidity of government that causes the accident
though.