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Thread: Open carry vs school zone.

  1. #1
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    I did not want to jack the map thread, so I am starting a new one.

    Does the "Gun Free School Zone" law essentially remove your right to carry in urban areas? Ironic considering the urban areas are the ones I think need the right more then anyone else. I can not imagine a way around that law with out going to court and proving the constitution takes priority over a federal law. That would take someone being arrested for violating the law and chancing a felony, and jail time. Am I understanding this correctly?
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    Your right, the GFSZ is not limited by urban or rural areas it covers all school zones period.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    cleveland wrote:
    Does the "Gun Free School Zone" law essentially remove your right to carry in urban areas?
    GFSZ laws do not remove your right to carry. They restrict the methods by which you may carry. 948.605 does notapply to a firearm which is Unloaded and Encased. Of course this makes it very difficult to deploy the firearm in self defense if you should need to do so.

  4. #4
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Right, but urban area school zones overlap each other enough to essentially prohibit open carry anywhere in the city that is not private property.

    So how is it that we have the right to open carry in the city?
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    You have the right. They just make it impossible for you to exercise that right.

  6. #6
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    BTW, I am not trying to be difficult here, I'm just trying to understand.
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  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    I will comment on something you posted on the other thread first.

    Those that have seen my holster realize it is a duty holster, same as my local LEO's carry. It is attached to a belt in a manner that make removing it from the belt almost impossible without tools.

    Anyway, when I carry, I leave the house with the holster already on. When I arrive at the business I am visiting:

    1. Retrieve my unloaded cased firearm from the "trunk" completely removing the case from the vehicle.

    2. Open the case, and holster the pistol.

    3.Remove the loaded magazine from the case and insert it into the holstered pistol.

    4. Return empty case to vehicle.

    Now I am ready to go (Condition-3, loaded magazine, empty chamber, safety on).

    When returning to the vehicle:

    1. Retrieve case from "trunk" completely removing case from vehicle.

    2.Open case, un-holster pistol, release magazine right into case.

    3. Place unloaded firearm into case, close case completely.

    4. Insert unloaded cased firearm into vehicle.



    This entire process only takes a second or two to complete. (and yes, Doug made a good video showing how at a certain point you are in possession of a concealed weapon) talk about FUBAR gun laws, we got 'em.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now to you school zone post:

    We believe the law to be unconstitutional on its face. The federal law that the Wisconsin version is based on was already defeated by SCOTUS. We have not purposefully directly challenged this as the penalty is FELONY. We are looking into a possible courtchallenge on constitutional grounds. The law says you can get a permit/license, but we cannot find any agency in Wisconsin that has a procedure/application much less ever granted such a license/permit AND as Gleason pointed out, you can carry, just doesn't do much good.

    You also asked about the sidewalk, and there have been many discussions here about just that, if I have to shovel it, don't I own it? Go ahead and read those threads, no point in re-hashing it here.

    In the end, we don't have a LEGAL opinion, just personal ones and it's a FELONY (loss of all firearms rights forever) if we are wrong.

    I suggest, call you city attorney and ask these questions: Can that guy sit in his lawn chair on the boulevard/sidewalk all day every day? Can I have him arrested for trespass? Do I own the sidewalk, is it private property with a public easement? Just how does that work? If you can actually get an answer and post it for us, GREAT!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For reference:

    Condition-3, loaded magazine, empty chamber,safety on.

    Condition-2, loaded magazine, one in the chamber, hammer at half-cock position, safety on.

    Condition-1, loaded magazine, one in the chamber, hammer at full-cock (cocked/locked) safety on.

    Also, in Wisconsin, you CAN have loaded magazines in the same case with the firearm. They just cannot be "attached."

    Unloaded means === EMPTY chamber and either empty or no magazine in the firearm.


  8. #8
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Your right, that's not as much work as I envisioned it to be.

    I tried to watch that video, but it's choppy on the 3 different computers I tried to watch it on. :X

    Seems like a HUGE gamble to open carry if there is a good chance you can be charged and convicted of a felony. I like the idea of protecting myself, but not at the expense of putting my family at risk. Who would take care of my wife and kids if I were in prison?
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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    cleveland wrote:
    Your right, that's not as much work as I envisioned it to be.

    I tried to watch that video, but it's choppy on the 3 different computers I tried to watch it on. :X

    Seems like a HUGE gamble to open carry if there is a good chance you can be charged and convicted of a felony. I like the idea of protecting myself, but not at the expense of putting my family at risk. Who would take care of my wife and kids if I were in prison?
    I live in the city, and would have to say that, yes, there is a chance that I (or the police) could screw up and I could end up in jail, but then again, there is a chance that I might need a gun, and not have one... Risk of death or risk of jail, I'll take jail.



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    "Better tried by twelve men, tried and true, than carried by six, wife widowed and blue."

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    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    You say that as though you believe that you have equal chance of being arrested and being killed. That may be (I don't know where you live in the city) but living in West Allis I am 100% sure that I have a better chance of getting arrested.


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  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    cleveland wrote:
    Seems like a HUGE gamble to open carry if there is a good chance you can be charged and convicted of a felony. I like the idea of protecting myself, but not at the expense of putting my family at risk. Who would take care of my wife and kids if I were in prison?
    There is no HUGE gamble at all. All LEO's in Wisconsin are aware of the AG's memo. Our OC picnics have seen to that.

    The only issue is the "school zone" thing. We have a petition up for you to sign and we are working to try and get it overturned. In the meantime, (if you live in a school zone) thenyes, you have no REAL option if you want to walk the dog around the block.

    Please sign the petition.

    When you go to the store, or whatever, as long as they have private "off street" parking and you can get from the car to the store without crossing the street, you are good to go.

    I have personally carried in Pick-N-Save, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Culvers, Hardee's, Burger King, Perkins, Gander Mntn, Denny's, Wal-Greens, Kohl's, Menards, Aldi's, Farm & Fleet, Fleet Farm, Dairy Queen, Sub Way, Target, Shopko, Cracker Barrel, Festival Foods,Numerous city/town parks, and that is all just within the last few weeks.

    Read up, Load up, Holster up, and CARRY ON!



  13. #13
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    So we can not carry in school zones, in the car, gov buildings, etc...

    Sounds like the only place a city guy can carry is his own property and out shopping.
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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    If you live within the school zone, that would be correct. That is why we need to get everybody to sign the petition so we can get that pesky school zone law thrown out.



  15. #15
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    Do you think the petition will really make a difference? I thought online petitions were not taken seriously.

    BTW, I signed it a couple days ago as a show of support, but I don't think it makes any difference.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    cleveland wrote:
    Do you think the petition will really make a difference? I thought online petitions were not taken seriously.

    BTW, I signed it a couple days ago as a show of support, but I don't think it makes any difference.
    Seeing as we have almost 1900 signatures since April, I'd say it isn't all that bad.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  17. #17
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    What does that accomplish? It shows that there is an interest, but at what level? These 1900 people state wide (assuming no one from out of state signed it) are a drop in the ocean. They do not even account for 1/2 of 1% of the people in the state.

    I am not asking these questions to be an ass, I am asking because I don't see how it will make a difference. If it were something I thought would make a difference, I'd carry the torch myself!

    In all fairness it's a better plan then I have........because I don't have a plan. That still does not make it an effective strategy.
    Cleveland's Holsters, LLC https://clevelandsholsters.com/

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    We give away a free holster every month on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cleve...19323708154588

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    When I read the title, I was hoping this would turn out to be a test case...

    But since it's not, then do what everybody else suggested...

  19. #19
    Regular Member cleveland's Avatar
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    If I am understanding them correctly, you have two choices. Chance the felony or don't carry on school zones.
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  20. #20
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    This is something I have been concerned about - Say I want to go to (insert your store here) which just happens to be accross the street and within 1000 feet of a school property. If said business has its own lot contiguous with the store, I can carry there as it is private property in spite of the school zone law?

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    Brendon .45 wrote:
    This is something I have been concerned about - Say I want to go to (insert your store here) which just happens to be accross the street and within 1000 feet of a school property. If said business has its own lot contiguous with the store, I can carry there as it is private property in spite of the school zone law?
    Yes, because the lot is private property. it just shows how idiotic the GFSZ's really are. Even If that private property abuts the schools front door, you are legal to carry there too.

  22. #22
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Brendon .45 wrote:
    This is something I have been concerned about - Say I want to go to (insert your store here) which just happens to be accross the street and within 1000 feet of a school property. If said business has its own lot contiguous with the store, I can carry there as it is private property in spite of the school zone law?
    Yep, private property is not part of any "school zone". The school could be next to the store, and the parking lot of the store is good for carry. The law does nothing for anyone, and should be dropped...

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    AaronS wrote:
    Brendon .45 wrote:
    This is something I have been concerned about - Say I want to go to (insert your store here) which just happens to be accross the street and within 1000 feet of a school property. If said business has its own lot contiguous with the store, I can carry there as it is private property in spite of the school zone law?
    Yep, private property is not part of any "school zone". The school could be next to the store, and the parking lot of the store is good for carry. The law does nothing for anyone, and should be dropped...
    Yup, especially this passed weekend when two separate instances where people were shot right in front of schools.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  24. #24
    McX
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    OK, I got a question here. Probably the wrong thread. But the experts are assembled: So if CC goes through, but they don't budge on school zone. How we gonna pass through a school zone? Then the extrapolates of: What? CC ok for vehicle pass through? What about the poor OC? From the wind that blows I can tell they hate and want to kill OC. But still months have gone by, they leak a willingness to something, and yet another month goes by!
    You guys missed a good one; first time in my life seen. Customer too cheap for a lug nut welded the wheel onto the hub! That's why I love my job.
    Not much to report; CC at the shop lately, 'cause of the cold. Haven't seen an Open Carrier for awhile. Ran into an "underground" open carrier today; A plumber who OC's if he doesn't like the neighborhood. Told him to come here.
    Thanks for the poop on "Conditions" near as I can tell I'm a 3 and 1/2.

  25. #25
    McX
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    This is something I have been concerned about - Say I want to go to (insert your store here) which just happens to be accross the street and within 1000 feet of a school property. If said business has its own lot contiguous with the store, I can carry there as it is private property in spite of the school zone law?


    I can answer this one; Mechanix Ltd. And Yes!

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